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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #1 
Sounds like an awesome idea until you realize that Biggers is trying to get you hooked on something for free to get you to do HIS beta testing for free to develop a product that he will charge for and inevitably sell it to a third party who will only sell it to Corelogic a year after its initial transfer from alamode.

Good luck suckering us again mr. biggers.

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MikePower

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My only problem is if the data is not an actual prior appraisal on the comp, it will be no better that using county records.

So much data has already been obtained by Fannie, etc., I do not think it would even matter if the data was sold in two to three years.  Fannie has been collecting data for 10 years now.

CompFlo is great, when you have actual prior appraisal data, especially with a sketch.  However, if the comp data is not actual prior appraisal data, then it will not be worth any money at all.  Hopefully, like CompFlo, it will tell you if it is primary or secondary data.

Mike P.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #3 
I would imagine that it would share subject data only.  

The fear I have is based on Mercury Network.  This was developed in response to the HVCC which alamode stood firm against.  Mercury Network was meant to be an alternative to the AMC allowing our clients a viable third party that met requirements without selling our souls to the AMC.

Then Mercury Network somehow works its way into Corelogic's hands after we were told that there was no profit being made from Mercury that the user fees were there to cover costs only.

I am not reading an email that this is FOR APPRAISERS in response to the deluge of data that the AMC's and FNMA are collecting but won't share with us.  This is billed to make our appraisals "bulletproof".  AND if you sign up now it will be free for you for a minimum of ONE year.  Sound familiar?

What they are looking for now isn't the data... Its the participation factor.  They are looking to build a map showing where there are ample appraisers and coverage and where there are gaps.  

I am telling... No WARNING.... yall to give this some serious thought before blindly signing up.

Imagine the damage that could arrise if the AMC's saw our appraiser "networks".  Do you really want FNMA or your clients or an AMC knowing who you associate with professionally?  Do you really want them to know what "groups" cover certain areas?

There is a reason they are doing this and it ain't an effort to produce better quality reports.  Its for them to figure out who goes where and who associates with who.  Maybe this thought is lost on most metro appraisers but this is how non-metro appraisers have always worked and I personally do not care for anyone to know what appraisers I have a working relationship with.    Think Anti-Trust Laws.....

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Meatloaf

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Remember when I told Matt Biggers that his dad's company should quit doing XML, ENV and pluggins?  Remember I told him that they were developing this crap at the whelm of FNMA and random clients and not at the wishes of THEIR clients (us).  They laughed at me.

Had alamode shut down producing XML, ENV files and shutdown the client pluggins we wouldn't be worried about any collateral underwriter, AVM, or any of the crap that the appraisal industry is shaking about today.

I hope Matt still reads this forum from time to time.  Matt, if you read this encourage the ones in charge at alamode to seriously consider SHUTTING DOWN THE PRODUCTION OF ALL FILE FORMATS THAT ALLOW PARSING OF DATA SUCH AS XML, UAD, ENV, PLUGGINS ETC.  THESE WERE NOT ASKED FOR BY YOUR CLIENTS BUT WERE DEMANDED BY THE ONES WITH THE BIG MONEY.  YOUR CLIENTS (US) FOOTED THE BILL FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THE SOFTWARE THAT PRODUCES THESE FILE TYPES.  THE ENTIRE ECONOMY OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ENTIRE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY RESTS ON THE ABILITY OF ALAMODE TO MAKE ONE DECISION.  IF ALAMODE SAYS TODAY WE SHUT OFF THE UAD, XML, ENV AND ALL PLUGGINS THE ENTIRE MORTGAGE INDUSTRY WOULD FLIP OVER AND APPRAISERS WOULD THEN BE IN CONTROL OF OUR DATA.  THE AVMS OF THE WORLD WOULD CEASE TO EXIST.  COLLATERAL UNDERWRITER WOULD CEASE TO EXIST WITHIN A WEEK.  APPRAISERS WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY, YOU WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY, AND THE INVESTMENT KNOWN AS REALESTATE WOULD BE MUCH MORE SECURE FOR US AND OUR DESCENDANTS.

GIVE IT SOME SERIOUS THOUGHT.  ITS AN EASY TASK TO ACCOMPLISH.  REMEMBER YOUR CLIENTS ARE THE APPRAISERS OF THE WORLD... NOT FNMA.



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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #5 
Biggers sold to CoreLogic.  He's a wolf in sheep's clothing - using our trust to get at all of the data the industry is salivating for.  Trust Not!   But all of the sheep will jump happily off the cliff.  I've given up on trying to educate the old timers in this industry about the dangers of this data sharing.

He sees the end is near for most of us.. and he's trying to make a last gasp to get a windfall.

Anyway..  am I going to rely on Skippy's sketch and data from the field or the tax records which is what is going to be used against me under review and in the court of law?

We don't need more data..  we need to protect the data we create.

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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
Remember when I told Matt Biggers that his dad's company should quit doing XML, ENV and pluggins?  Remember I told him that they were developing this crap at the whelm of FNMA and random clients and not at the wishes of THEIR clients (us).  They laughed at me.

Had alamode shut down producing XML, ENV files and shutdown the client pluggins we wouldn't be worried about any collateral underwriter, AVM, or any of the crap that the appraisal industry is shaking about today.

I hope Matt still reads this forum from time to time.  Matt, if you read this encourage the ones in charge at alamode to seriously consider SHUTTING DOWN THE PRODUCTION OF ALL FILE FORMATS THAT ALLOW PARSING OF DATA SUCH AS XML, UAD, ENV, PLUGGINS ETC.  THESE WERE NOT ASKED FOR BY YOUR CLIENTS BUT WERE DEMANDED BY THE ONES WITH THE BIG MONEY.  YOUR CLIENTS (US) FOOTED THE BILL FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THE SOFTWARE THAT PRODUCES THESE FILE TYPES.  THE ENTIRE ECONOMY OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ENTIRE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY RESTS ON THE ABILITY OF ALAMODE TO MAKE ONE DECISION.  IF ALAMODE SAYS TODAY WE SHUT OFF THE UAD, XML, ENV AND ALL PLUGGINS THE ENTIRE MORTGAGE INDUSTRY WOULD FLIP OVER AND APPRAISERS WOULD THEN BE IN CONTROL OF OUR DATA.  THE AVMS OF THE WORLD WOULD CEASE TO EXIST.  COLLATERAL UNDERWRITER WOULD CEASE TO EXIST WITHIN A WEEK.  APPRAISERS WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY, YOU WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY, AND THE INVESTMENT KNOWN AS REALESTATE WOULD BE MUCH MORE SECURE FOR US AND OUR DESCENDANTS.

GIVE IT SOME SERIOUS THOUGHT.  ITS AN EASY TASK TO ACCOMPLISH.  REMEMBER YOUR CLIENTS ARE THE APPRAISERS OF THE WORLD... NOT FNMA.




No need to solve this problem, we will just crawl to our space by the CD's, tapes, VHS, 8 track, and records.
This system of appraisers was flawed and built for demolition on purpose.  The appraisers will not even support each other.  I blame the appraisers 1000%.



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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #7 
Alamode can solve this problem tomorrow.  They just don't have the balls.
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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
Alamode can solve this problem tomorrow.  They just don't have the balls.


I wouldn't go that far.  They can go out of business tomorrow..  just like us..   by not creating documents in the required format. 

You can't solve these problems after they have rooted.  You have to be smart enough to see what our enemies are doing and counter with tact.   Crazy that I deem FNMA as an enemy but when someone is trying to eliminate your livelihood without as much as a blink or an explanation..  going as far as to brag about it..   they qualify.

What?  You say FNMA is the whole reason we have appraisers as they've required appraisals through the years?  Forget about it..   If banks were forced to hold onto their own notes and absorb the risk of their decisions we would be flourishing and actually respected. 

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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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treskirkland

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePower
My only problem is if the data is not an actual prior appraisal on the comp, it will be no better that using county records.

So much data has already been obtained by Fannie, etc., I do not think it would even matter if the data was sold in two to three years.  Fannie has been collecting data for 10 years now.

CompFlo is great, when you have actual prior appraisal data, especially with a sketch.  However, if the comp data is not actual prior appraisal data, then it will not be worth any money at all.  Hopefully, like CompFlo, it will tell you if it is primary or secondary data.

Mike P.


My understanding is that this will only be from the comps and not subject data.  So, I don't think it's all that great.  It will be helpful to see what quality and condition ratings other appraiser's have been using.  I can see there being a few mins of time saved by having the grid completely filled out, even if you have to over ride some lines.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberStamp


I wouldn't go that far.  They can go out of business tomorrow..  just like us..   by not creating documents in the required format. 

You can't solve these problems after they have rooted.  You have to be smart enough to see what our enemies are doing and counter with tact.   Crazy that I deem FNMA as an enemy but when someone is trying to eliminate your livelihood without as much as a blink or an explanation..  going as far as to brag about it..   they qualify.

What?  You say FNMA is the whole reason we have appraisers as they've required appraisals through the years?  Forget about it..   If banks were forced to hold onto their own notes and absorb the risk of their decisions we would be flourishing and actually respected. 


Go out of business tomorrow?  They already have our money.

BTW... How many "glitches" has alamode had over the past decades that still are not fixed yet we still funnel money to them?

Let it be a glitch that their software won't create any xml files for a month and see what happens at fannie.

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf


Go out of business tomorrow?  They already have our money.

BTW... How many "glitches" has alamode had over the past decades that still are not fixed yet we still funnel money to them?

Let it be a glitch that their software won't create any xml files for a month and see what happens at fannie.


By us having to go to a competitor that will provide an XML file they will go out of business before we do.  They can't make a stand on their own.

They stand divided just like us...  that's how this industry suicide happens. We get out smarted by those that are willing to put a little competition aside to better their business.  Where as we get divided like cattle on a prairie ranch. 

The agents have been much better at putting competition aside to ensure the industry survives.  But the internet has been a game changer and even they are getting their backs broken as a buck becomes harder and harder to make.. they will sell out.  They will fall next.

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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #12 
I think appraisers would stand with alamode for the good of the industry.  I think aci and clickforms would follow suit.  

ORRRRRR we could just continue cowering to FNMA and giving them all the free xml data they want and watch our livlihood go out the door while we pay for the privlige of walking through the door.

Alamode, ACI and Clickforms are digging their own grave every time they allow us to submit an XML file.

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Nomad

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Reply with quote  #13 
One other problem is going to be discrepancies with condition and quality ratings. If you site them as a source but disagree with the prior appraisals on condition or quality, how will that look? It will be more liability on you if you change it.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
One other problem is going to be discrepancies with condition and quality ratings. If you site them as a source but disagree with the prior appraisals on condition or quality, how will that look? It will be more liability on you if you change it.


I agree 100%.

Also, abbreviations and the use of the last three lines could be very confusing.

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
I think appraisers would stand with alamode for the good of the industry.  I think aci and clickforms would follow suit.  
.


Ha. Sorry..  that's laughable. 
For example appraisers can stand right now without anyone's help and not convert the report to these formats.. 

But we don't.  Alamode can't take blame for that..   they are trying to herd cats. 

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
One other problem is going to be discrepancies with condition and quality ratings. If you site them as a source but disagree with the prior appraisals on condition or quality, how will that look? It will be more liability on you if you change it.


Not to mention that more uniformity in the CU means less work for you.  So Biggers does (or doesn't) realize by getting us all to say the same thing, whether right or wrong, allows big data to appear more accurate which will put more mortgages packages in the non-appraisal box.  

We can thank Biggers for thinking this one through!  Although they probably have and just want to sell this off and bail on the industry.  How do we know?  Because nowhere in his email does he state that our data will be protected.  It is quite obvious.  And his windfall will be immediate.  The second you click "accept" he has the right to steal every piece of work you've ever created and sell it for a profit.



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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #17 
And lets not forget that now that he has developed this technology look out for a fine print disclaimer when we renew our software that we may be sharing it with this "cloud"..   regardless if we pay to use it ourselves.  It can simply become their new business model and jam it down your throat or go use another software.  Oh but you are using their Vault?  That is why they created the vault in the first place..   So that a) it becomes impossible to leave less lose all of your files or you have to go back and recopy   b) He already has your data...  in the vault.  He only needs to change the terms and presto he's peddling data to take away even more work
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberStamp


Ha. Sorry..  that's laughable. 
For example appraisers can stand right now without anyone's help and not convert the report to these formats.. 

But we don't.  Alamode can't take blame for that..   they are trying to herd cats. 


Actually alamode can take the blame.  They were the first ones out of the box puckering up to FNMA and the others followed suit.  There isn't an appraiser alive that asked for this functionality.  He did it at the whelm of FNMA.  If he would have told FNMA to suck it or at least pay for it the story would have went into a much different direction.  Instead... Dave and the icecream boys bent over and said push harder.

Now all they have to do is pull the plug but they wont do that.  ACI and Bradford will mimick anything that alamode does because alamode is the market leader by a long shot and has the ear of a hell of a lot more lenders, appraisers, everyone.

All alamode would have to do is demand that fnma quit with this collateral underwriter crap within 14 days or they will shut down all XML file formats.  Wouldn't take but a day for FNMA to wake up to the reality that they can actually do that and the machine gets turned off for good.

Alamode should take responsibility in being an accessory to the crime of stealing our data and work product by fnma.

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #19 
In all honesty - we are jumping on Alamode a bit but in reality it is the entire industry that is crashing down on us.  Not just them.  They are trying to evolve and survive. 

Everyone is hoping that they can keep evolving and "something" will change in the future that allows everyone to continue making a living.  Unfortunately I feel it will require an act of congress to do so..   which is certainly not out of the question.  If you continue to allow risk to be expanded and go unchecked while backing it blindly with tax payer's money..   there is zero chance that that can end well. 

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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #20 
Notice how alamode isn't including this "product" as part of the upcoming 'titan' system.  It will be a separate piece of software not associated with the new "titan" program.

Hmmmmm..... Remind anyone of mercury network?

Guarantee you this will eventually be sold off.... Guess who wants to buy it....

Be very careful with this sharing program.

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #21 
And the most dangerous one of them all...
Meatloaf there is no way to reach out to all the appraisers who will not think this through..  we are only as smart collectively as our weakest links. 

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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #22 
skippy will be the first to pay for this.  Unfortunately, it will only benefit the skippies.
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Nomad

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Reply with quote  #23 
Would have to pay me to use it.  I wonder if the terms and conditions to using their software will soon include giving them the right to harvest out comp data even if we don't agree to using that feature.
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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
Would have to pay me to use it.  I wonder if the terms and conditions to using their software will soon include giving them the right to harvest out comp data even if we don't agree to using that feature.


Appraisers = ship with no rudder

Our ultimate elimination is going to make a few very rich. 

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JC325

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Reply with quote  #25 
I have no idea what this industry does in the next decade. On one hand I think what John said a decade ago might come true we will become fact checkers for AVM's more than appraisers but then who is a bank going to sue if the value is bad. I think they will always want someone on hook for a 95% loan and they at least will want someone to verify the home still exists. 

Either way I am getting my agents license...tired of thinking so much when I can just fill out a sales agreement poorly with the wrong legal description and make more money. 
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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC325
I think they will always want someone on hook for a 95% loan and they at least will want someone to verify the home still exists. 
 


All of the test results are back.  The old system melted down and they were not able to force enough buy backs to make the appraisal worth it.  They will treat mortgages now like a credit card transaction and write off a certain amount loss to theft and inaccuracies. 

But there is a difference nobody will talk about because appraisers have no representation:  And that is they can be so careless because it is completely backed by the tax payer.   And the financial crisis has emboldened all risk takers.  No one was held accountable and they found out they can print trillions of dollars and somehow it all comes out fine.

But does it all the time?  I doubt it.  This is history repeating it self from the late 1800's and early 1900's.  Several boom and bust cycles went off without too much pain until one was unrecoverable.

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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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