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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #1 
Via an AMC, an appraisal was completed in mid December 2017.  Now the client utilizing this AMC is wanting the 2018 license and 2018 E&O although neither of these were valid as of the effective date of the appraisal.  Opinions/Commentary?
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #2 
Did you do a revision after 2018?
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pnalley

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Reply with quote  #3 
If they pay timely and full fee, give it to them
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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #4 
The appraisal came in low.  So the appraisal was amended on 01/05/18 to reflect the changes in sale price and concessions at the request of the client.  Do note that the yearly E&O expired on 01/31/18.  The license expired on 12/31/17.
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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #5 
Well..  it is irrelevant.  Back when we used to manage our own clients we would comply and cooperate on simple technicalities because of our business relationship.  Now AMCs will swap you out for a hamburger and ask for many things unnecessary.  So you can push back..  but how much do you need their work? 
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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #6 
With Meatloaf pointing out the amendment, I can understand the license.  I do not understand them wanting E&O that was not and is not valid when this report was completed or the amendment was provided.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #7 
Look at the signature date and the expiration of your license on the signature line.  It makes sense that the license and E+O need to reflect what the signature date reflects.

My stuff always renews on 12/31 and 1/1.  I am always cautious to make sure any revisions always include the updated info.

Also, when merging into a 1004D be cognizant of the dates on your signature.

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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #8 
The last time this report was touched was on 01/05/18.  There is no reason they should need E&O that didn't come applicable until 01/31/18.  I do understand the license since it was updated on 12/31/17 and the appraisal amended on 01/05/18 to reflect changes.  However, it still is notable that the effective date of the appraisal is 12/15/17.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #9 
Take yourself out of the FNMA form for a minute.

You could have an effective date of 06/12/1955 and a signature date of 01/01/2018.  Guess they wouldn't be concerned with whether the EnO was active in 1955.

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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #10 
So what is more important/relevant when it comes to E&O, the effective date or the signature date?  And btw, the effective date and the signature date is on the older E&O, not the new policy.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #11 
What is relevant is the signature date.

What the client doesn't know is that your E+O is a claims based policy.  This means that the claim must be made while the policy is in effect, not when the "damage" occurred.

Soooo you did the appraisal and didn't pay your monthly E+O premium, now it is no longer covered and neither are any of your prior acts.  Back in the pre HVCC days, I had clients that demanded to be added as a certificate to the policy... What this did was to notify the client if and when the E+O became in-effective.

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nogava

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Reply with quote  #12 
Agree with ML.  Seems like the sig date and prior is what you should be concerned with to disclose current license.  The signature date would update your liability. 

As far as E&O, they should pound sand on the updated policy.  The previous policy covered everything prior to expiration.  Unless I'm missing something.  I'd provide the updated license and let them know that those dates are already covered by the prior E&O policy.

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Tea

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Reply with quote  #13 
Are you including a copy of your E&O in the appraisal?

I hope not.  That's an incredibly bad idea.

Updated license should have been included in the updated report.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nogava
Agree with ML.  Seems like the sig date and prior is what you should be concerned with to disclose current license.  The signature date would update your liability. 

As far as E&O, they should pound sand on the updated policy.  The previous policy covered everything prior to expiration.  Unless I'm missing something.  I'd provide the updated license and let them know that those dates are already covered by the prior E&O policy.


Thats not exactly correct.

The previous policy is history.  Your acts are only covered by your current policy.  Maybe they wanted to ensure that you had a current policy covering the time between then and closing... Or through the first scheduled payment.

Many lenders have a strict buy back policy if the first payment is missed for any reason.  I know lots of loan officers who have made lots of first payments for many buyers for this reason.

The E+O policy is a claims made policy... this means that even if you had a policy in place at the time of the assignment it is meaningless if you are sued two years or even two months later and you don't have a current policy in effect covering acts from that prior time period.

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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #15 
Therefore, all appraisals within 5 years should include all policy updates throughout 5 years from the effective date.  That's a lot of freaking policy updates.  Oh, and make sure they are included in the appraisal because the client requests it after the appraisal is completed.  Not included in the original scope of work.
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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #16 
Has E&O saved anyone's ass?

Just curious....anyone???

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nogava

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf


Thats not exactly correct.

The previous policy is history.  Your acts are only covered by your current policy.  Maybe they wanted to ensure that you had a current policy covering the time between then and closing... Or through the first scheduled payment.

Many lenders have a strict buy back policy if the first payment is missed for any reason.  I know lots of loan officers who have made lots of first payments for many buyers for this reason.

The E+O policy is a claims made policy... this means that even if you had a policy in place at the time of the assignment it is meaningless if you are sued two years or even two months later and you don't have a current policy in effect covering acts from that prior time period.


Good point.  But such a load of BS.  This ranks right up there with emissions testing and college text books.

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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby
Has E&O saved anyone's ass?

Just curious....anyone???


Without it, I make no money.

I did see a copy of an appraisal once that stated that acceptance of the appraisal was the client's approval that the appraiser's liability is limited to the amount paid for the appraisal.

Not sure how well that would hold up.

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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #19 
Never needed it so far, knock on wood. 

But another thing, this current policy was not in existence when the appraisal was completed and signed.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keiththefiddler
Never needed it so far, knock on wood. 

But another thing, this current policy was not in existence when the appraisal was completed and signed.


Doesn't matter.  What matters is that you 1. had insurance when it was done and 2. have insurance now.  Without both, you have zero coverage.

While they can't guarantee that you will continue your coverage, it at least shows due dilligence on their part to ensure that the report was at least covered on the day of delivery.

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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #21 
It was covered on the day of delivery.  That insurance didn't expire until a month and a half after it was signed, sealed, and delivered.
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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #22 
I didn’t have E&O as a registered. I don’t know if my mentors did. I didn’t even know about it until I ventured out on my own.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keiththefiddler
It was covered on the day of delivery.  That insurance didn't expire until a month and a half after it was signed, sealed, and delivered.


But your license did.  You can't cover an un-licensed appraiser... so... your E+O was technically not in effect if your license wasn't active.  Unless, you purchased a specific "tail coverage".

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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #24 
They have a copy of my new license which I provided since I did amend the appraisal after renewing my license.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #25 
WEll, then you should tell them to kiss your ass.
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keiththefiddler

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Reply with quote  #26 
I wanted too.  I'm personal friends with the part-owner of the AMC though.  Friends of 20+ years from college.  I make it rough enough that he has to personally call.  We talk a bunch of crap and have a laugh or two and then I send him the E&O.  But I made my point.  Any other AMC, and I would definitely tell them to kiss my ass.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #27 
Who is this cocksucker??? I will tell him to kiss my ass.
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