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eheffner

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Reply with quote  #1 
I completed an appraisal on a home that was not listed in FMLS or MLS and I stated in the contract section that this was not an arms-length sale as it was not listed in an open market. 

The client has disputed this stating the house was listed on Zillow.com.  I have never searched Zillow.

Do any of you search Zillow along with FMLS / MLS to see if a property is listed in an open market?

Would Zillow be considered "For Sale By Owner"?  Would any of you consider this a "listing"?
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #2 
I wouldn't look there but it is a listing.

I also wouldn't classify it as a non arms length based on the presence or absence of a listing.

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eheffner

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Reply with quote  #3 
If it is not listed, what would you consider "A reasonable exposure time on the market"?

I stated that I performed the expected behavior of an appraiser in the normal course of business.  (Meaning, I don't think any of us check Zillow).
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #4 
If its in a rural area where MLS isn't prevalent, I will check google which will sometimes reveal a forsalebyowner.com or militarybyowner.com or zillow.com or some listing in the FMLS or GAMLS (neither of which are local to me).

Generally though if you can prove it listed fsbo, then you should disclose the listing.  If it is listed fsbo and you cannot confirm the DOM, you are instructed to put "0" in the box and provide an explanation.

The exposure time should be developed based on what MOST homes are listed (ie MLS).  Not based on one FSBO listing.

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johnmbryant

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Reply with quote  #5 
I check Zillow as a last resort.  Just because it is not listed with MLS does not mean it was not an arms-length transaction.  You ask the seller when he put it on the market.  You also ask the seller about the nature of the transaction.

The last sale in my condo complex was an arms-length FSBO.  I collected the closing statement and the Zillow listing.  I wrote a note about the nature of the transaction including DOM.  When the next house sells, I will give the seller the envelope to give to the appraiser.  He certainly should use it since there has been only one other sale is the past year.
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nogava

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Reply with quote  #6 
Agreed.  The terms, not the marketing, determines the nature of the transaction.

Zillow is where it's at for buyers.  Last several deals I've closed as a buyer's agent were dropped in my lap due to Zillow and buyers doing their own research.  Not through the gateway we've setup through the MLS.  

The MLS sold agents down the river feeding info to the these other outlets.  Kinda surprised the NAR has not stepped in to stronghold the MLS to prevent that to some extent.  Deep pockets I guess.  Agents are spending a ton of money now to be a 'premier agent' on Zillow.  Five years ago no one was doing that.

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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nogava
Agreed.  The terms, not the marketing, determines the nature of the transaction.

Zillow is where it's at for buyers.  Last several deals I've closed as a buyer's agent were dropped in my lap due to Zillow and buyers doing their own research.  Not through the gateway we've setup through the MLS.  

The MLS sold agents down the river feeding info to the these other outlets.  Kinda surprised the NAR has not stepped in to stronghold the MLS to prevent that to some extent.  Deep pockets I guess.  Agents are spending a ton of money now to be a 'premier agent' on Zillow.  Five years ago no one was doing that.


Interesting development.  I wonder if agents or MLS will address this.

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San_Diego

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Reply with quote  #8 
An arm’s length transaction is one in which the buyer/tenant and seller/owner act independently and have no relationship (by blood, marriage or unrelated business dealings) to each other, ensuring that all parties in the deal are acting in their own self interest, are not subject to any pressure or duress from the other parties, and are dealing from equal bargaining positions. Two strangers with equal bargaining power and knowledge of the property are likely to agree upon a price that is close to market value, as the seller will strive for the highest price possible while the buyer is striving for the lowest price possible. It’s assumed that an arm’s length transaction will be fair and equitable to all parties involved and will result in a fair market sales price
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MEP

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Reply with quote  #9 
I Google every property...it is a good habit...you can learn a lot from Google. Also, most of the time it gives you the listing Numbers and some history....Try it for 30 days...you will be pleased...That is of course not directed to Jody, he has his own data base.

There is a difference between an Arm's length and Open Market or Market exposure...Don't interchange the definitions.



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BillDing

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffner
I completed an appraisal on a home that was not listed in FMLS or MLS and I stated in the contract section that this was not an arms-length sale as it was not listed in an open market. 

As Mep and others stated, arm's length has nothing to do with it being listed in an open market.  Your client is correct. You need to correct your appraisal.

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #11 
I just did a sale they found on the new facebook market.  NAR better start stepping up their game or they will find themselves in the same boat as appraisers.
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johnmbryant

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Reply with quote  #12 
MEP.  I have never thought of Googling every property.  It is an exceptional idea.  I have Googled several properties including FSBO's to see what I would get.  Lots of data were available.  Most of it was correct.

Here is an arm's length FSBO in my complex that many appraisers will miss.


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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby


Interesting development.  I wonder if agents or MLS will address this.




I just got one listed on Zillow only and not in MLS...

I found via a google search.  Watch your a$$, the market is transforming.

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Benjamin

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Reply with quote  #14 
I am considering selling my home in the next year or so. I will probably avoid the listing agents fees and just go FSBO with Zillow and a few other online listing services that are free or low cost.

I definitely see this as the new trend in the market.
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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
I am considering selling my home in the next year or so. I will probably avoid the listing agents fees and just go FSBO with Zillow and a few other online listing services that are free or low cost.

I definitely see this as the new trend in the market.


Why not... and save thousands if properties are moving.

I talked with the guy today and he said (take it for what it is) that they are trying to pass a law stopping Zillow type companies from listing properties.  Make sense, since they have a union of agent's cents.





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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #16 
Well...  As a guy who has sold 3 of my personal properties without an agent..   just know who you are.  I unfortunately never sold in a sellers market... probably much easier.  My problem is that I find something nicer then get it under contract and then sell my property.  The problem with that is the clock is ticking.   If you have all the time in the world to sit and wait... like selling your used car...  then have at it.  However, if you have time constraints be careful.  Don't forget how long it takes to save up $10,000 after taxes and negotiate like every dollar matters.

You are probably already going to have to pay 3% as just about every buyer has an agent.  So you are not saving that much.  Then - the agents will steer most of their buyers away from your home as a protest and just because they hate to deal with FSBOs. If they make FSBOs successful... they will soon be out of work.  So that buyer is really going to want your home and push it through and your pool is already shrunk due to the above reasons.

It was a battle.  I'm going to think long and hard if I will do it again.   I may make out better just getting an agent and upping the price.  It does help if you have every dang bell and whistle that buyers want ...  that will make many jump up and down and force their agents hand.

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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #17 
Correction... the buyer found the listing on Facebook because the guy listed there also.
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