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TP

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Reply with quote  #1 
The average fee that an AMC is charging Borrowers is $550 (1004 in Metro Atlanta). If you are working for less than $400/report, it's time to get out of the business.

I'm sick of hearing stories about all these appraisers working for $200/$300/$350. If you allow them to do this, it will never stop and only get worse.   

Also, who in the world is still working for these "sweat shop" appraisal firms? I don't get it
 
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #2 
Appraisal Institute minions.... Thats who is running and working for the sweatshops and doing cheap work.
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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #3 
Oh dang, you went there...
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #4 
Its true... All the chief appraisers are AI nutjobs that can't make a living actually doing appraisals.... And guess what.  They are the ones in charge of hiring and training the peons that do the work.

SRA = Significantly Retarded Appraiser.  You know its true.

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MEP

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Reply with quote  #5 
So what bit your butt...did you lose a deal to one of them? 9 years, 49 post, what else do you think? 
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #6 
I miss Rusty sometimes.... Its been a while... Its about time for him to pop back up again.
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keith

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Reply with quote  #7 
Anyone who thinks that bad work is done by those who take AMC work is just stupid and don't know what the hell they talking about. Some of my worst reviews are from independent appraisers getting $400-$500. It is a myth that AMCs allow bad work. They are actually the worst at over analyzing work and demanding comments for everything. Horrible scope creep.  
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Nomad

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Reply with quote  #8 
Talking numbers benefits them, not us.  Silence! brothers and sisters.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith
Anyone who thinks that bad work is done by those who take AMC work is just stupid and don't know what the hell they talking about. Some of my worst reviews are from independent appraisers getting $400-$500. It is a myth that AMCs allow bad work. They are actually the worst at over analyzing work and demanding comments for everything. Horrible scope creep.  


While I agree with you... I also get the opportunity to see work done for the same AMC's that I work for that somehow manage to pass through their QC that are simply horrible reports.... The fees for these simply horrible reports that somehow manage to make it through are generally less than what the same AMC pays me yet somehow more is demanded of me.

Its confusing.  Its almost like they will accept sloppy work if the price is right.

I am not saying your work is sloppy... Please don't take me wrong.

But I have also seen some of the worst work done by appraisers charging more than $400.  These are usually low volume appraisers who beat their chests and think that their low license number and AI membership gives them a pass and a right to be holier than thou.

I am doing a review right now.  Not a bad report... until you see the $3500 across the board adjustment for screen porch sprinkler system burglar alarm jet tub.  Come on.... Really>>>  Also, comp 3 is a great comp.  However it isn't in the subject subdivision like the location map shows.... Its about a mile and a half away.  Value is spot on the contract price... Good thing it has an across the board adjustment for BS amenities that all the comps likely have too.

Generally the low fee appraisers do a higher volume of work and their reports seem to be a bit more streamlined, easier to read and more to the point than a lot of the high fee garbage I see that is an obvious clone of a report done 2 years ago.

The AMC's are not the bad guy... The bad guy isn't even the guy working for the sweatshops at a reduced cut.  The bad guy is the guy charging an arm and a leg for a substandard report... Thats the guy that makes it seem to the public and to our clients that there is no real reason to pay more.



I remember years ago on this forum folks were beating their chests about charging more and more... Then those same folks would brag about all the extra stuff they put in their reports and all the extra steps they would take to give the client more than they were paying for.  Those are the folks that drove prices down because they made it easy for the client to justify NOT paying more because all they were getting was unwanted/unneeded fluff.

I have seen some fairly good reports that were done for 300-350.  I dont' think I have seen any good reports with fees lower than that.  I have seen very poor reports with fees around $500....

The worst reports I have seen are for the VA.  It amazes me the crap the VA will accept... Yet many VA appraisers think their shizle doesn't stink.



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dunwoodyappraiser

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Reply with quote  #10 
I have reviewed report where it is a $2 million + house where someone charged $325 to do it.  I was so shocked because just to measure this house probably took 1-2 hours, it was so huge!

When I see things like that it is so depressing that someone would charge so little to appraiser such a complex house.  I do appraise high end homes, but I charge for it, because when you get into that price range, there are so many things to consider and upgrades, pools, etc. and not to mention the liability.

Do you think a painter charges more to paint a 1,000 sq.ft. house or a 10,000 sq.ft. house?  Obviously because of the work involved and time spent, he is going to charge more for the 10,000 sq.ft. house, and everyone would understand it.  But appraisers charging $325 for a huge complex $2 million dollar house in Buckhead, it is ridiculous!


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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #11 
Maybe he had done the house 12 times before... in the previous month.
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MEP

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Reply with quote  #12 
Meatloaf musta got laid...he is being nice...Hum
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #13 
Im always nice..  No lack of punanny here.

Seriously.... WE are all quick to judge a dude by a low fee.  I don't do it any more, but I used to do discounts if I had recently done a property.  But when the hvcc came about my discounting days went out the window.

Its likely he is lowballing... but it is also possible that he did the report last week for $1500 and doing it this week for a different client for $325.  Its also very possible that a borrower in a 2 million dollar deal is shopping more than one lender and getting multiple reports.  Just saying....

Or maybe that $2Mil home belonged to the head of some large AMC that funnels work to this particular appraiser.... Possible.



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TP

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Reply with quote  #14 
I never said a word about bad reports. I'm just sick of appraisers working for peanuts and these AMC's charging premium. 

I've always believed the more comments you must make the worse the report is. The comments only justify something you have or have not done in the report.

The comps are what determines your value, the better the comparables the less BS comments are required. 

BTW, I agree with the earlier statement about VA appraisals. Most really are bad
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #15 
Yeah, I just finished my review on a VA appraisal.  Luckily the dude got lucky and had three excellent comps... Other than that the report was junk.  Had he needed to actually search for comps the report would have probably been trash.  Fortunately, this was one of those reports you can't screw up... Yet somehow he managed to get so specific as to adjust for BA WT SS FP and FP/Logs Pa Fpor Rpor Spor.... And the list goes on.  Problem is that his comps had stuff he said they didn't have and some didn't have the stuff he said it did have.  No need to get into making adjustments for each and every nickle and dime amenity....Missing prior sales, no support for market trends, Terrible  Just Terrible.

Seriously... I have never seen anyone adjust for Logs in a fireplace.... I am not talking about adjusting for the fireplace..that was a separate adjustment.

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Chuck_Schick

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
Seriously... I have never seen anyone adjust for Logs in a fireplace.... I am not talking about adjusting for the fireplace..that was a separate adjustment.


I only make the log adjustment in winter.
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keith

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Reply with quote  #17 
Talking about adjustments Meatloaf, I have argued on this forum for years (though not lately) that it is the sales and not the cost grid. Itemizing like your review, plays into the hands of the devil. Logs in the fireplace. He should get a good slap in the face. A term many, many appraisers and UW's forget is superadequate. I remember watching HGTV one Saturday morning a they did a show from East Cobb. Nice house in a decent but typical neighborhood. House prices were around $400k. They did an outdoor kitchen, retaining walls, gazebo, water feature and at the end the agent insisted that the house was now worth $525k because they spent $125k. How many appraisers would bite on that? I hope none!!!!!!
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #18 
I am getting to where i only adjust for the big ticket items.  Often I find that even brick vs frame doesn't make a difference.

Agents sell by $/sf..... Unless you got a pool, workshop or acreage it seems nothing else matters.

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pnalley

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Reply with quote  #19 
I work for AMC's if they pay me my fee. They also have to tack on any upload fee's.

Lately what boils my blood it they will accept it if I say a house is worth $300000 but they must have photo of the water running. Why would they trust me with $300,000 but not with water

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnalley
I work for AMC's if they pay me my fee. They also have to tack on any upload fee's.

Lately what boils my blood it they will accept it if I say a house is worth $300000 but they must have photo of the water running. Why would they trust me with $300,000 but not with water


Yes we are stuck appraising like it is still the recession meanwhile the flood gates of easy money have been opened ..  most not even requiring an appraisal. 

The difference is, inexplicably, why a non-appraisal loan is gov't subsidized and guaranteed no buy back.  How does less scrutiny make less error?  That is when I scratch my head.  It is literally a vendetta against appraisers.  I wonder who they think they are getting back at?  CG's?  The old appraiser shops?  AMC's?  The law makers for Dodd Frank? 

Who?

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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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JC325

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Reply with quote  #21 


AMC's including local ones have declined every fee increase I have asked for so far this year. Their price is $350 and one charges you an $11 upload fee. Nice to know they think fees should remain the same for half a decade and all are expenses magically stay the same. Same classy AMC's want steak for value meal prices. If you are still floating $350 for a fee you are a bunch of asshats. 

 AMC's (I know some of you locals are on here) you should be making money off volume not digging into are fee when you want six comps on every appraisal and have requirements well beyond FNMA / FHA guidelines. Also when you ask for a two business day rush $400 is insulting especially when you are probably charging $650 for the rush....
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #22 
I have been getting some lowball fee "offers" as well.  I quoted them my fee and about half of them have re-assigned.  Doesn't bother me a bit, my book is full.  I also don't assume nor am I convinced that they found a taker for their fee.

Streetlinks called me today.  Asked if I still did 2075's for $250.  I said sure... When do you need it back?  They said on the 11th.  I said no problem I will be happy to accept it.

They didn't send it.


Last month same thing.  They send over an order and I ignore it about 5 times.  Finally I quote them $950.  They send it over at $950 and within 30 mins put it on hold.  Two weeks later they cancel the order.

WTF????

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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf

Last month same thing.  They send over an order and I ignore it about 5 times.  Finally I quote them $950.  They send it over at $950 and within 30 mins put it on hold.  Two weeks later they cancel the order.

WTF????


I've had a few recently with the same issue, but I didn't make it to $950... 
Warm weather is coming in a few months, don't stress.
People are already going back to the "piggy bank" mentality.  

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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #24 
Streetlinks used to be a decent AMC.  Now they suck.
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treskirkland

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Reply with quote  #25 
My volume level has dropped significantly the last two months, if this trend continues I imagine it will be difficult to continue getting the fees we've been getting the last couple of years.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by treskirkland
My volume level has dropped significantly the last two months, if this trend continues I imagine it will be difficult to continue getting the fees we've been getting the last couple of years.


Only if you allow them to convince you to reduce your fees.

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Nomad

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by treskirkland
My volume level has dropped significantly the last two months, if this trend continues I imagine it will be difficult to continue getting the fees we've been getting the last couple of years.


Normal winter slowdown. Stay strong on your fees.
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treskirkland

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
Normal winter slowdown. Stay strong on your fees.


I haven't dropped my fees.  But, I know the reality is that there are plenty of appraisers that will (or who never ever raised them in the first place).  
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pnalley

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Reply with quote  #29 
One of the AMC's I work for has started sending orders over at $25 less than I charge. I decline and quote my fee. Up until the past month they didn't have issues paying my fee. Don't know what is up with that. I am staying busy anyway.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #30 
They are testing the waters.

I know for a fact if you accept one of those fees for $25 less they will refuse to honor your previous fee even if they have to pay more to another appraiser.

Your lowest fee you do an appraisal for sets the schedule for the AMC.  They will send the order to another appraiser at a higher "standard" fee rather than "approving" a fee increase of you even if your total fee is lower than the other dude.

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #31 
Well its pretty simple:  Lower volume has an "bomb cyclone" affect on our income.  The only orders independent appraisers get are flow over - odd ball, rush, complex, rural.  just a small drop in volume you will have all the "bread and butter" orders handed to the Automated and Staff appraisers.  So from an independent's standpoint we will be forced to fight for the few spill overs that come because the "fleece the system" process is dug in like a tick. 

They can navigate slow downs because they control the orders.  Kind of like when the old appraisal shops we all were trained in would let the newest and the weakest go when times were slow..   meanwhile the main appraisers still made out well.  AMCs now just force the staffers to start doing some complex work to make up the difference.  They stay busy, we starve.

Unless we do something that puts the control of obtaining orders back in our own hands, not a middle man, the only thing that can save us is massive increases in volume. 

It is a bomb cyclone because when volume drops to a certain level your orders can drop 90% even though when you look at market statistics mortgage applications may only drop 5-25%.   In the old days when applications dropped 10% our volume dropped 10%.  A direct correlation.


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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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