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Meatloaf

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So... I know you park in front of the house legally and get out and take your picture.... But while driving around to find the comp can you please explain how you do this in a non-distracted maner????


Here is a photo of a typical mailbox with a properly displayed street number.  Its a close-up photo and I still cannot make out the number easily.  This mailbox actually has all digits.... Many are missing a digit or two.... New federal rules prevent use of mailboxes with new construction and builders are being forced to use cluster boxes making it even more difficult to safely navigate those comps.

How do you do it so well?  How do you manage to stay legal and not distracted whilst locating your comps?  You amaze me... I haven't figured it out yet.

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BillDing

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Everyone else seems to manage.  If you can't look for something while driving, you shouldn't be driving.  Of course, when you're pulled over to the side of the road, you aren't driving.  I know it's confusing for you, but keep taking driving 101; I still have hope for you.
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Meatloaf

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing
Everyone else seems to manage.  If you can't look for something while driving, you shouldn't be driving.  Of course, when you're pulled over to the side of the road, you aren't driving.  I know it's confusing for you, but keep taking driving 101; I still have hope for you.


There is a law that says differently.

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BillDing

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I guess the jails must be pretty full of people looking for an address, lol
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BillDing

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Reply with quote  #5 
Are taxi drivers exempted from this law?
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Meatloaf

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing
Are taxi drivers exempted from this law?


Actually, yes.

In fact, the way numbers are commonly placed on mailboxes and houses is not adequate for 911 services.  If the emergency departments consider it a danger to locate a house by these poorly numbered mailboxes then it must actually be dangerous to drive around looking for the numbers right?

Back to your question regarding the picking up and dropping off of passengers.... Yes, there are specific exclusions for that.

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BillDing

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No, taxi drivers are not exempt.  They do not have a wild card to drive distracted.  They must obey the laws just as you and I...so, one can only conclude that if looking for an address is too distracting for you, then you need to get a new job, because the rest of us people have no problem. 
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Meatloaf

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing
No, taxi drivers are not exempt.  They do not have a wild card to drive distracted.  They must obey the laws just as you and I...so, one can only conclude that if looking for an address is too distracting for you, then you need to get a new job, because the rest of us people have no problem. 


Actually they do have a wildcard.... It refers to picking up or dropping off of passengers.

So sounds like you admit that driving and trying to read mailbox numbers is distracting eh?

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BillDing

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf


Actually they do have a wildcard.... It refers to picking up or dropping off of passengers.

So sounds like you admit that driving and trying to read mailbox numbers is distracting eh?

No, they don't have license to drive "distracted".  They, like all of us, have the right to drive safely. We don't have a problem with looking for a house, or a store, or a parking spot, etc.  Just you.  It's nothing but a lack of ability on your part, thus the only answer to your problem is to stick to desktop appraisals or you should get another job where you can perform all of the functions properly.


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Meatloaf

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing

 

No, they don't have license to drive "distracted".  They, like all of us, have the right to drive safely. We don't have a problem with looking for a house, or a store, or a parking spot, etc.  Just you.  It's nothing but a lack of ability on your part, thus the only answer to your problem is to stick to desktop appraisals or you should get another job where you can perform all of the functions properly.



So you are saying that you can drive by a mailbox like the one I posted and actually read the numbers on it safely while driving?

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BillDing

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If I can't see it... [idea] ... I pull over.  
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dunwoodyappraiser

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I give up on Billding, he will always say no matter what that taking comp photos is always the right thing to do, no matter what!
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Meatloaf

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It is the right thing to do.  However, it is the dangerous thing to do and they passed a law that makes it illegal to do it anymore.  Sure... WE all break laws on a daily basis to help our clients.  We speed, we talk on the phone in the car, we fail to use our turn signals and we occasionally fudge a value a little to hit a contract... But no one ever catches us.  But since we break all those minor laws its somehow expected that we break this one?  I don't think so.  Society is making a big deal out of driving distracted.  They are making a big deal out of it because people are getting killed.  Remember when only pussies would wear seat belts? and it was OK to drink and drive? and cars had ashtrays?  things change and its time we as a collective group stand together on this issue for our own safety.

I have NEVER had any pushback from stating that a photo wasn't taken due to it not being legally possible.



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BillDing

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
But since we break all those minor laws its somehow expected that we break this one?  I don't think so.  Society is making a big deal out of driving distracted.  They are making a big deal out of it because people are getting killed.  

I'm 100% with Meatloaf.  I'm against driving distracted.  I don't think you can inspect and drive at the same time. Safely and legally pull over, take the photo and inspect the property. But I don't think dunwoody will ever learn that.

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Meatloaf

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How do you get to the place that you can safely and legally pull over?  By reading the street numbers posted on the other side of the mailbox that is missing 2 out of the three digits and the third digit is faded?

I don't think there is a way to abide by the laws and actually pull over to safely take a photo.  But lets say you do find a safe place in front of the comp to briefly stop and take a photo.  How did you get there?  

I don't know about you, but the act of simply finding the comp is a distracting process that in itself is very dangerous.

So... You say the pizza man does it so why can't we?????  Well... The answer is that people break laws all the time.  Even cops...they willingly and knowingly break all sorts of traffic laws.  My point is that we have FEDERAL agencies that expect us to break a law.  The Pizza man does not have a federal or state agency expecting them to break a law.  How is it that it is OK to have a government agency imply that we do something illegal and dangerous to "prove" that we abided by a SOW that doesn't actually exist?

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BillDing

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i guess we can never go to a friends house or to many businesses.  [rofl]  You're a funny guy, Meat

All I can say is...if you can't drive and look for an address without getting so distracted that you crash, you need to walk.

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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing
i guess we can never go to a friends house or to many businesses.  [rofl]  You're a funny guy, Meat

All I can say is...if you can't drive and look for an address without getting so distracted that you crash, you need to walk.


What kind of friend do you have that you need to look for their street number?

Businesses have a requirement to post a specific size street number and are required to always have it visible in an effort to avoid causing traffic issues.



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BillDing

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Some businesses are in homes or in strips that are spread out like an old crazy lady's quilt. With all of your friends, you either haven't been to their house yet and would need to be distracted to find it or you had to have had a first time that you've gone there, so you already broke your interpretation of the law.  Of course, you have the subject to every one of your appraisals that you have to find in order to inspect.  Sorry, friend...but you're one distracted guy. I'm calling the cops and making a citizen's arrest!  [wink]
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Meatloaf

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The subject has a contact number.  The dude at that contact number tells me his house is the third one on the right with the orange dodge dakota parked in the yard.

I always ask is there a posted street number that I can read and usually the answer is NO and they give me a description of the car or the number of houses from an intersection or something where I can locate the property safely.  The comps don't do that.  On sales with no contact there is a big realtor sign in the front yard.

My friends always send their driver to pick me up in their limos.

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BillDing

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You should try using MLS.  They have photos of the comps.  [thumb]
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Meatloaf

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing
You should try using MLS.  They have photos of the comps.  [thumb]


Which is exactly how I have to find the comp a majority of the time.  So what is the point?

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BillDing

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Reply with quote  #22 
Goes hand in hand with you looking for the house that has the orange dodge dakota parked in the yard. And usually you find the subject by the photo on the MLS and address, not by your ridiculous example of a "orange dodge dakota parked in the yard"
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Meatloaf

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Quote:
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Goes hand in hand with you looking for the house that has the orange dodge dakota parked in the yard. And usually you find the subject by the photo on the MLS and address, not by your ridiculous example of a "orange dodge dakota parked in the yard"


Thats not a ridiculous example.  It happened last week.  Its not unusual for folks to tell me what kind of car will be in the driveway or how many houses theirs is from a intersection or whatnot.

In fact, they have enacted a program where no new construction has mailboxes any more.  Many of the new subdivisions have no mailbox, no house number, no nothing identifying the house.... Except for an orange dodge dakota.

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MEP

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Reply with quote  #24 
I have only hit a couple of mail boxes...
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Nomad

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf


Thats not a ridiculous example.  It happened last week.  Its not unusual for folks to tell me what kind of car will be in the driveway or how many houses theirs is from a intersection or whatnot.

In fact, they have enacted a program where no new construction has mailboxes any more.  Many of the new subdivisions have no mailbox, no house number, no nothing identifying the house.... Except for an orange dodge dakota.


Don't forget about the ghetto. Usually only a few houses here and there with all their numbers. Usually it is a 78 Cadillac with rims vs. dodge Dakota though.
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dunwoodyappraiser

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Reply with quote  #26 
Also, the person who ordered the pizza KNOWS that the pizza guy is coming and he pulls into the driveway, stops in the driveway to get out and deliver the pizza to the house who again, KNOWS he is coming because they ordered the pizza.  

People do not KNOW that we are taking pictures of their house because we are appraisers. People are very suspicious of folks driving by and taking random pics of their house and driving around slowly trying to find an address.  

It is just NOT the same thing and it is ridiculous to say that it is.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #27 
Not to mention the pizza man has permission to enter, is delivering a package, and usually calls to get specific instructions on how to get to the house.  Such as third house on the right with the 74 catalina parked out front.

In my case... The pizza man say meet me at Bennies.  Then I have to drive 7 miles to Bennies to pick up my pizza.

I don't get many pizzas.

In regards to the mail man.... They are not even required to drive in the drivers seat.  How many mailmen have you seen sitting in the passengers seat while stearing by leaning over into the drivers seat?  They have their own special traffic rules and don't have to follow ours.

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Bobby

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http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2017/02/22/bill-would-require-georgia-drivers-to-go-hands-free-with-phones/

Bill would require Georgia drivers to go hands-free with phones

As The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported last week, motor vehicles fatalities in Georgia jumped by a third over the last two years. A big culprit, experts say: Drivers distracted by their cell phones.

House Bill 163 seeks to address the problem by requiring hands-free use of electronic devices. The bill cleared a subcommittee of the House Public Safety and Homeland Security Committee on Tuesday.

Its sponsor, state Rep. Betty Price, R-Roswell, told the committee distracted driving is a serious problem in the United States.

“We are talkers and texters in this country, and it’s getting us into some large trouble,” Price told the committee.

 

The bill passed unanimously. But similar bills have fail in the General Assembly in the past.

You can read more about rising motor vehicle fatalities here.




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BillDing

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Reply with quote  #29 
Stay on topic here.  No one is talking about driving into the driveway.  No one is talking about using the phone or camera while driving. 
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Meatloaf

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OK.. So how do you find the house while driving without taking your focus off of driving?



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BillDing

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Reply with quote  #31 
Same way we look at everything else around us.  You do it carefully.
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Bobby

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing
Everyone else seems to manage.  If you can't look for something while driving, you shouldn't be driving.  Of course, when you're pulled over to the side of the road, you aren't driving.  I know it's confusing for you, but keep taking driving 101; I still have hope for you.


Show me the law.

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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #33 
so you can carefully read the street number on this mailbox while driving in a lawful manner?  Bullschit!

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Bobby

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing

I'm 100% with Meatloaf.  I'm against driving distracted.  I don't think you can inspect and drive at the same time. Safely and legally pull over, take the photo and inspect the property.
But I don't think dunwoody will ever learn that.


Explain, in a normal day to day operation, how you do this "legally". 
I want to know exactly who, what, when, and where.  Only then, can we have a real discussion.




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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #35 
Ok... Lets say that BillDing is able to actually find a safe a legal place to "park" while he takes his photos for ALL of his comps.  

The most concerning part is how he finds his comp in the first place.  Thats the dangerous part of the process....  I call it the "creep and peep". 

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BillDing

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I can find the comps just fine while driving.  Sounds like a job competence thing...and you two aren't competent to do a job that requires you to do more than one thing at a time.

meatloag.jpg 


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Meatloaf

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Sounds like you agree.... The act of driving a motor vehicle and the act of looking for an address are two separate actions.  It is illegal to do allocate mental resources from the act of driving to any other act unless an emergency is involved.

Its not whether you CAN do it.... Its whether you CAN do it LEGALLY.

I CAN rob a bank while making a deposit at the same time.  But i cant do that legally.

Your client can ask you to call the borrower.  Your client can ask you to call the borrower 78 times at 3am too.  I don't think you could legally do the latter.

So.... My point isn't that one CANNOT drive distracted.  I do it all the time.  However, when a client asks, requests, or suggests that we do something illegal it is up to us that we DON'T.  

However..... I have yet to see where FHA or FNMA has required that you do something illegal.  They do tell you to provide your own photo to document compliance.  However, there is nothing requiring you to drive by the comp... so there is nothing to "comply" with.  They have mis-understood the SOW on the fnma forms.

So.... You are being mis-guided into believing that you are REQUIRED to take a photo of the comp FROM THE STREET to document compliance with a guideline that doesn't exist all whilst breaking multiple driving laws in the process.  But its OK to break the law for a "good client".  Right?

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BillDing

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No, I don't agree.  I have no problem driving un-distracted and looking for something.  Competent drivers do it all the time. I'm constantly looking around my surrounds.  You, however, I agree..you're not competent to do that.  Thus, you should stick to desktop appraisals and stay out of the car.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #39 
You can't legally "look for something" whilst at the same time remain "un distracted".  

Read the laws.

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BillDing

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
You can't legally "look for something" whilst at the same time remain "un distracted".  

Read the laws.


It's absurd to say that any job that requires you to look for an address is illegal. You can't drive and look for something???  Simply absurd.  Sir, you just can't drive.

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Meatloaf

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: “Distracted Driving” is any activity that diverts attention from driving.  These distractions can be visual (taking eyes off the road), manual (taking your hands off the steering wheel), or cognitive (taking your mind off the process of driving).  Using your cell phone while driving is one of the most dangerous types of distracted driving, because it occupies the motorist’s eyes, hands, and concentration (Source: distraction.gov).  Some other examples of distracted driving are: eating, drinking, grooming, talking to the other passengers in the vehicle, adjusting the stereo, or programming the navigation system.

Under Georgia law O.C.G.A. § 40-6-241, “A driver shall exercise due care in operating a motor vehicle on the highways… and shall not engage in any actions which shall distract such driver from the safe operation of such vehicle.”  Exceptions to this law include “the proper use of a radio, citizens band radio, mobile telephone, or amateur or ham radio…”  If a Georgia driver violates this law, they can be charged with distracted driving (in addition to the traffic violation), and potentially face civil liability for any injuries caused.

And an excerpt from gahighwaysafety.org.

Unfortunately, the distractions don’t end when Georgia motorists finally hang up the phone and drive. Several other activities have been found to be just as distracting or even more capable of increasing crash occurrences and here’s how they rank: reaching for a moving object, increases crash risk by 9 times; looking at an object outside the vehicle increases crash risk by 3.7 times; reading increases crash risk by 3 times; grooming or applying makeup increases crash risk by 3 times; using a hand-held device like a GPS increases crash risk by 3 times; talking or listening to a hand-held cell phone increases crash risk by 1.3 times; and drowsiness, a tired driver behind the wheel, increases crash risk by 4 times.

I am not making this up.

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BillDing

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re-read post 40.  If you still want to argue, please re-read it again and again until you figure out that what you're saying is absurd.
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Meatloaf

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Quote:
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re-read post 40.  If you still want to argue, please re-read it again and again until you figure out that what you're saying is absurd.


 looking at an object outside the vehicle increases crash risk by 3.7 times; reading increases crash risk by 3 times;

Looking at an object outside the vehicle and reading are classified as distracted driving by the state of Georgia.

This is a direct quote from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, " You cannot drive safely unless the task of driving has your full attention. Any non-driving activity you engage in is a potential distraction and increases your risk of crashing.

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BillDing

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I see...so it's illegal to look at anything while driving... [rofl] [rofl] [rofl]  Ok...gotcha

Do you even realize how stupid you sound right now?

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Its the law.  Its also illegal to ride a bicycle in a cross walk.  Its also illegal to flick a cigarette butt out of the window.  And, its apparently illegal to let your kids ride in the back of the truck.  But folks do it all the time.... So... It must be OK>
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BillDing

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Dude....people look at things when they drive.  Don't be such a dumbass


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Quote:
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Dude....people look at things when they drive.  Don't be such a dumbass



I agree.  I look at the road, traffic, pedestrians, etc.  I have yet to figure out a way to carefully drive through a neighborhood in a safe manner without being distracted and locate a specific property.

Maybe in your area they all have big neon street numbers that you can read from a quarter mile away.  In my area, you can't read 99% of the street numbers and 99.99% of them are missing a digit or two.

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BillDing

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Quote:
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Maybe in your area they all have big neon street numbers that you can read from a quarter mile away.  In my area, you can't read 99% of the street numbers and 99.99% of them are missing a digit or two.

You live in 1970?  News flash...your MLS has photos of the property.  Pull over when you see the house and then check the address. If you have a rare situation like your photo and they all look alike, drive to one, pull over and look at the address.  Not hard to find out which one is going to be yours.

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No.  It is not 1970... It is 2017.  Driving and safety have become a much more important issue over the years.  The average car in 1970 had a CB radio, no air bags, no anti lock brakes, a cigarette lighter AND an ashtray and most didn't even have seat belts.  Is that how seriously you take your safety while you are on the road?  Things have changed.  Now there is a LAW that says you cannot be distracted while driving.  ITS A FREAKING LAW!!!!  ITS NOT OPTIONAL!!!!

See the quote in red above.  Its from the NHTSA.  They didn't just arbitrarily make this up... it is backed up with research.  They wouldn't make such a profound statement like that if it wasn't true.

Why do you insist on breaking laws and endangering yourself and others just to take a photo of something you already have a photo of?


That photo I presented is not a "rare situation".  Its more common than not.  The real RARE situation is when you can actually read the street number on the mailbox and actually figure out which house it belongs to.  In new subdivisions in my area, mailboxes are no longer allowed.  Cluster boxes are being placed for all new construction.  Which means you can be driving down the street and 25% of the houses have mailboxes while others do not because they were built after a certain date.

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BillDing

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Reply with quote  #50 
Then you need to do only desktop appraisals.  You can't even go to the subject to inspect it...you'll have to take your eyes off the road and look for the house.  
Bummer dude.  

Good news is that Meat is done with appraisals...more work for everyone else!  [thumb]

We'll all wave to you when we drive past your house. We have that ability.  [wave]

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