Forum Header

Georgia Appraiser Forum

Provided by:   John M. Bryant, Inc., A Georgia Appraisal School

School Calendar | Phone Book | Appraisal Topics | Appraisal Questions | Other Topics

Forum Rules
Online Courses
Appraiser Search
MLS Analyzer


Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #1 
iPhone dropped in some water before pics were downloaded onto computer and I don't use iCloud. I had new construction completion 1004d pics on there amongst others. Most I had to go back out and take all new photos. I read photo requirements on the order for the 1004d and it specifically states that only exterior photos were needed. Since I was in an annoying position to begin with I didn't set up an appt. to get in the house and just took exterior photos and submitted the report. Now they want interior photos and say I am violating uspap and Fnma requirements and they don't want to pay me to go back out there. I say that just because fnma requires interior photos on 1004d's on new constructions, it doesn't automatically oblige me to take those interior photos if the assignment conditions clearly are contrary to that. I don't know who they are insuring the loan with if at all, If a lender is insuring the loan through fnma then it is there obligation to make sure it is up to fnma requirements and sending me an order only requesting exterior photos is their fault not mine. What do you guys think? Make a pissing contest over $150 or just go back and do it for free to avoid headaches? Does anyone see anything wrong with my logic?
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #2 
go take the damn pictures.

Your phone died.  It happens.  You also know that interior photos are required in an instance of a completion inspection on a damn new construction.  

Actually, the assignment conditions oblige you to take pictures of what you noted was wrong in the original report.  In this case, with new construction you are kinda obliged to provide photos of the interior.

You know better than this.  Go take the photos and be very apologetic about it.

__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #3 
Even when order specifically states exterior photos only? If I'm doing an appraisal for some private party lender and that's all they want, that's all I've got to do. How am I supposed to know this was a fnma deal? It is not inherently a requirement to photograph anything.
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #4 
I think I've got to stick w/ my guns.  Nowhere does the order state that this is a fnma deal and it does specifically say exterior photos only.  It would be like someone coming back indicating that they only wanted pics of kitchen, baths, main living area and then coming back and wanting pictures of all the bedrooms and attic for free.  Any other opinions out there?
0
MEP

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,821
Reply with quote  #5 
Yes it does, it is implied...you do a dwelling that is under construction; the lender/client doesn't have the finished interior photos....The issue is you don't want to correct a mistake...Yes, it sucks but you gotta do it....BTW...$150 for a final is very good in my area...keep that client happy!

Recently, I did a vacant land appraisal and forgot to take the street scene...I went back out...thinking the entire trip what a waste...but it was necessary...My excuse, I always take the street and front before I get out of the vehicle...in this case, the buyers were sitting in the middle of the driveway and pulled up to my car before I could get my stuff out...distractions are costly!

__________________
M. E.

"Don't call him a cowboy until you see him ride'
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #6 
I respect what you are both saying but I'm still having a hard time agreeing w/ some "implied" responsibility when they specifically asked for exterior photos only in the order.  So I guess you both think that request is an unacceptable assignment condition?  I don't simply because there is no responsibility stated anywhere in USPAP about providing interior photos or not providing them.  I have a hard money lender I work with and he trusts my opinion and trusts me.  He doesn't require any photos at all for any reason.  He is the client and he gave me the scope of work.  I feel like this is the same situation.  They are the client, they gave me an acceptable scope of work and I complied.  It is not my fault that they are insuring it w/ FNMA and asked me for something that doesn't meet FNMA's standards.  Surely I'm making some sense here am I not?
0
MEP

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,821
Reply with quote  #7 
Yes you are, but future business and customer service is an important factor....consider how you react when you buy something and fail to mention an important issue and don't get what you really wanted....
__________________
M. E.

"Don't call him a cowboy until you see him ride'
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #8 
They are a decent client but not indispensable.  I guess an email indicating that I am right and explaining to them what a scope of work is and letting them know I'll hook them up this time since they are such a "great customer" is the right way to go.  Sometimes I wonder why we have actual nouns and adjectives describing what things are.  It doesn't matter what the words mean most of the time.  It's however some moron is feeling.
0
treskirkland

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 711
Reply with quote  #9 
Did you take interior photos the first time you went out there?   I know it sucks and it has happened to all of us before, but I think you've got to back out there.  I've never had a final inspection that said "exterior photos" only. 
0
treskirkland

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 711
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEP
Yes it does, it is implied...you do a dwelling that is under construction; the lender/client doesn't have the finished interior photos....The issue is you don't want to correct a mistake...Yes, it sucks but you gotta do it....BTW...$150 for a final is very good in my area...keep that client happy!

Recently, I did a vacant land appraisal and forgot to take the street scene...I went back out...thinking the entire trip what a waste...but it was necessary...My excuse, I always take the street and front before I get out of the vehicle...in this case, the buyers were sitting in the middle of the driveway and pulled up to my car before I could get my stuff out...distractions are costly!


I hate that when the homeowner or whoever is meeting me there starts talking and gets me out of my routine.....
0
nogava

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 305
Reply with quote  #11 
Out of curiosity, don't the most stringent requirements take effect to comply with USPAP? Wasn't that the Joyce Bailey 'pancake stack'?  I would assume that the FNMA form requirements supersede the client's SOW if they're requesting the final on a FNMA 1004D form.  

Just thinking that if you are requested to use a FNMA form then you would need to comply with FNMA guidelines regardless of the client's SOW.  I could be way off though.  Either way, sucks losing pics like that.  Been there.


__________________
OIIIIIIIO
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nogava
Out of curiosity, don't the most stringent requirements take effect to comply with USPAP? Wasn't that the Joyce Bailey 'pancake stack'?  I would assume that the FNMA form requirements supersede the client's SOW if they're requesting the final on a FNMA 1004D form.  

Just thinking that if you are requested to use a FNMA form then you would need to comply with FNMA guidelines regardless of the client's SOW.  I could be way off though.  Either way, sucks losing pics like that.  Been there.



I agree.

Also look at your engagement letter.  Often times, the "exterior only" photos are in regards to the UPDATE portion of the 1004D and not to the COMPLETION portion of the 1004D.



__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #13 
Win for the good guys. I plead my case in a professional manner and suggested that they change the verbiage in their order to avoid future problems. I told them I would do it for them for free because they are a great customer. They came back and agreed w/ me, thanked me for pointing it out, and are paying me to go do it. Bam.
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #14 
So are they paying you or are you doing it for free?
__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #15 
Read the last sentence in my previous post.
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,423
Reply with quote  #16 
You got lucky.  You always take photos on new construction.
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #17 
You should give the money to the borrower.  Its not fair that they are being punished for your mistake.

You originally took the photos because you knew they were needed regardless of the engagement letter.

__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing
You got lucky.  You always take photos on new construction.


So you think that the SOW included an unacceptable assignment condition?
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
You should give the money to the borrower.  Its not fair that they are being punished for your mistake.

You originally took the photos because you knew they were needed regardless of the engagement letter.


I see it differently.  I think that whoever was responsible for the verbiage in the order, whether that be the AMC or the lender, should reimburse the borrower.  
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #20 
What would your peers do????? Thats a uspap requirement.

I think your peers would say that interior photos on a new construction 1004D are pretty much the standard of care.

__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
What would your peers do????? Thats a uspap requirement.

I think your peers would say that interior photos on a new construction 1004D are pretty much the standard of care.


My golfing buddy appraiser friend agrees with me. As does the "chief appraiser" at AMC that paid me. You are conflating being an appraiser with being an appraiser who only understands how to do standard lender work. Read uspap and let me know what it says about interior photographs.
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #22 
Actually YOU read USPAP and report back about all the Intended User and Intended Use stuff.
__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #23 
My point exactly.  Nowhere in the original order or 1004d order was I notified that FNMA was an intended user.
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad
My point exactly.  Nowhere in the original order or 1004d order was I notified that FNMA was an intended user.


The 1004D is an extension of the original report.  What did the intended user and intended use in the engagement letter say exactly?

__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #25 
I'm right.  Not wasting anymore time on this topic.
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #26 
You are not right... Your guilty.... Nice time to walk away.  

No need to tell me what the intended use or intended user said.... I've been doing this long enough to know.

__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #27 
Meh... got work to do.  I've said everything you need to know to logically follow what I did, why I did it, and why I got paid.  You can believe whatever you like.
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #28 
GUILTY CONSCIENCE


__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,738
Reply with quote  #29 
Hard to feel guilty bathing in 150 1 dollar bills playah.  
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,980
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf


The 1004D is an extension of the original report.  What did the intended user and intended use in the engagement letter say exactly?


No dog in this fight...  but actually that is an incorrect statement.  The 1004D is a completely new assignment and stand alone.  Although most don't do it good practice actually requires you to state that you have previously provided services on the property address.  Anyone can do it therefore there is no continuation.  I know, very fuzzy since it would not exist without the prior report's conditions.. but that's the way it set up.

As usual they have provided fuzzy guidelines intended or not intended to be interpreted in many ways so that while appraiser's are blaming each other over different interpretations we provide the perfect smoke screen of confusion while the real money maker's on the deals sit back and count their cash.

Don't fall for it...  Give your fellow appraisers a HUGE margin for interpretation differences.
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,023
Reply with quote  #31 
My intent was that the intended user and intended use of the 1004D is ALWAYS the same as that of the original report.

In this case, the intended use of the original report was to determine the "as-compete" value of a yet to be completed building.  The "completion report" is required to show photos of the items to be completed in the original report.  Hence... Interior photos.

The engagement letter is likely written for the "update" portion of the 1004D in which case only exterior photos would be required.  This is where the intended user and intended use come into play.

__________________
The AMC is my B!TCH!
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,980
Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
My intent was that the intended user and intended use of the 1004D is ALWAYS the same as that of the original report.

In this case, the intended use of the original report was to determine the "as-compete" value of a yet to be completed building.  The "completion report" is required to show photos of the items to be completed in the original report.  Hence... Interior photos.

The engagement letter is likely written for the "update" portion of the 1004D in which case only exterior photos would be required.  This is where the intended user and intended use come into play.


You cut your clients too much slack.  As a stand alone product they DO need to outline fully the requirements of the assignment in EVERY engagement letter.  What if this was completed by a different appraiser?   With technology, it is the same amount of work to provide proper instructions. It is just laziness or oversight by the client.

With that said: we appraisers should see this type of thing coming almost every time.  If you have not been snapping a picture of EVERYTHING these days you leave yourself in these situations having to argue the nuances.  In appraising you are often 100% right 99% of the time and still wrong.  Having to snap additional pictures is the #1 cause for having to get back in your car and drive.
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.

Appraisal Topics | Appraisal Questions | Other Topics