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johnmbryant

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Reply with quote  #1 

The final AQB exposure draft drastically reduces the requirements to become licensed or certified residential. The full draft dated November 1, 2017 is attached.  This is probably the final word.

Education Requirements

To become CR an appraiser who does not have a college degree must have 30 semester hours of specific college courses. "College Level Examination Program" (CLEP) exams count as a completed course. The courses are the same as the 2008 requirement. The courses are:

  1. English Composition;
  2. Micro Economics;
  3. Macro Economics;
  4. Finance;
  5. Algebra, Geometry, or higher mathematics;
  6. Statistics;
  7. Computer Science;
  8. Business or Real Estate Law; and
  9. Two elective courses in accounting, geography, agricultural economics, businessmanagement, or real estate.

An associates degree in business, finance, accounting, economics, or similar programs will also meet the requirements for CR.

Apparently, a licensed appraiser does not have to have any college courses.  A CG still requires a college degree in any field.

Experience

Licensed Appraiser: 1,000 hours of documented experience completed over a 6-month time period.

Certified Residential Appraiser: 1,500 hours documented experience completed over a 12-month period.

Certified General Appraiser: 3,000 hours documented experience completed over a 18-month period. 1,500 hours must be non-residential appraisal work.

The exam and course work remain the same.

 
Attached Files
pdf AQB Fourth Exposure Draft.pdf (228.89 KB, 18 views)

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Elvis

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Reply with quote  #2 
Lowering the bar for entry into a profession is usually not good for the profession itself but the banks want the requirements lowered and they run the show in the housing/real estate market.
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BChip

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmbryant

The final AQB exposure draft drastically reduces the requirements to become licensed or certified residential. The full draft dated November 1, 2017 is attached.  This is probably the final word.

Education Requirements

To become CR an appraiser who does not have a college degree must have 30 semester hours of specific college courses. "College Level Examination Program" (CLEP) exams count as a completed course. The courses are the same as the 2008 requirement. The courses are:

  1. English Composition;
  2. Micro Economics;
  3. Macro Economics;
  4. Finance;
  5. Algebra, Geometry, or higher mathematics;
  6. Statistics;
  7. Computer Science;
  8. Business or Real Estate Law; and
  9. Two elective courses in accounting, geography, agricultural economics, businessmanagement, or real estate.

An associates degree in business, finance, accounting, economics, or similar programs will also meet the requirements for CR.

Apparently, a licensed appraiser does not have to have any college courses.  A CG still requires a college degree in any field.

Experience

Licensed Appraiser: 1,000 hours of documented experience completed over a 6-month time period.

Certified Residential Appraiser: 1,500 hours documented experience completed over a 12-month period.

Certified General Appraiser: 3,000 hours documented experience completed over a 18-month period. 1,500 hours must be non-residential appraisal work.

The exam and course work remain the same.

Are there any mandatory appraisal courses? I have the AA in business and the hours. I was unaware I required additional appraisal courses the last time. I thought I had evey thing I needed.

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johnmbryant

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Reply with quote  #4 
A licensed appraiser has to have 50 additional hours of mandatory appraisal courses to become CR.  The courses are:
  • Residential Statistics, Modeling, and Finance (15 hours)
  • Advanced Residential Case Studies (15 hours)
  • Approved Certified Residential Elective (20 hours)
You have to take and pass the CR exam.

The above courses count as CE as well so if you manage your time properly, you can take care of 2 years of CE.  You will probably have to have a USPAP course in those two years.

I don't believe the above has changed over the years but I don't guarantee it.


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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #5 
If we don't get new blood into the industry... There will be no industry.



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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
If we don't get new blood into the industry... There will be no industry.




What is the hurry?  I see no supply/demand issues.  You can get new blood into the industry within 48 months and can lower standards then if need be.  By then, maybe, just maybe, the majority of orders wouldn't be $275 and smart people would WANT to be appraisers as it would then be a good viable profession.  As it is they are trying to artificially increase demand on the profession with those who expect less from a profession and have less vested in its success and reputation.

So when the AMC monkey treats you like the great dumb donkey they think you are don't go crying..  because you are being treated like your peers who may be still learning to follow directions and write coherently. 

This is not how you gain respect as a profession.





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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #7 
Its not a problem of finding people who "want" to be appraisers.  I meet people all the time that would love to gross a grand a day working from home.  But they can't get into the business because I ain't going to train them, the lenders won't allow me to have them work for me, there is no viable way to recruit, TEACH, and employee a new appraiser.

I would love to have some help, would love to train someone to be a good appraiser, would love to contribute to our industry.  But I can't.  It will do nothing but cost me money and slow me down.

And lets face it.  The majority of appraisers able and willing to take the time to "train" someone... Are not the ones you want training ANYBODY.



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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
Its not a problem of finding people who "want" to be appraisers.  I meet people all the time that would love to gross a grand a day working from home.  But they can't get into the business because I ain't going to train them, the lenders won't allow me to have them work for me, there is no viable way to recruit, TEACH, and employee a new appraiser.

I would love to have some help, would love to train someone to be a good appraiser, would love to contribute to our industry.  But I can't.  It will do nothing but cost me money and slow me down.

And lets face it.  The majority of appraisers able and willing to take the time to "train" someone... Are not the ones you want training ANYBODY.




This is what I was saying years ago... 

I kid you not....."You", as the senior training appraiser, should be compensated, just like higher education or college, for valuable information passed on.  Especially if they can split after a few years and take or compete in your area.  And I'm talking at minimum, what a few years of college can cost.  It is well worth the cost to an informed individual.  



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Meatloaf

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Reply with quote  #9 
I would be happy with taking royalties for training an appraiser.  Enforcement is an issue though.
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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby


This is what I was saying years ago... 

I kid you not....."You", as the senior training appraiser, should be compensated, just like higher education or college, for valuable information passed on.  Especially if they can split after a few years and take or compete in your area.  And I'm talking at minimum, what a few years of college can cost.  It is well worth the cost to an informed individual.  




The appraisal industry grew by leaps and bounds in the late 1990's and early 2000's as the mortgage industry changed.  People's tolerance for financing and spending their home equity changed.  Secondary markets created a whole new industry out of thin air.  Appraisers were the beneficiaries. 

Our numbers grew..  it was natural, organic, supply and demand.

You cannot expect boom to last forever.  As the number of appraisers tripled and quadrupled there has been a moderate and slight pull back in numbers since..   but the numbers have been more than made up for with the new appraisal-less guidelines accepted (for good or for bad - they are not going anywhere).   Technology and loose guidelines for data will be changing the landscape with more than a bull dozer, more like carpet bombing, your current channels of orders.

Anyone thinking this is a good idea to introduce new competition, especially artificially created by lowering standards, is out of their mind. 

Your comments make sense..  maybe 3 years ago and before we knew just how far they were going to take this AVM thing.  Get with the times... the landscape is changing weekly not yearly.  Just ask the retail industry.  They are hoping to have us operating on a skeleton crew and the least experienced and the cheapest are going to fill the first seats.

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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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BracketThis

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Reply with quote  #11 
  I got a call just 2 days ago- this guy just finished taking the 90 hour trainee course. He was looking for a supervisor & found me on a Google search. I told him I can not be a supervisory appraiser since I have not taken the supervisor 7 hour class. He did not know what that was. I do not even think he knows that he must take also this class. I said "Good luck" and hung up the phone. There is no benefit for me to put my license in jeopardy while losing money in the process. 
  They have already started funding loans solely with AVM data. The AVM has no E & O Insurance to go after. Hopefully they will start prosecuting the Underwriters when loan defaults. Then we will see if a full interior appraisal by a CR is worth a flip.

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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BracketThis
  I got a call just 2 days ago- this guy just finished taking the 90 hour trainee course. He was looking for a supervisor & found me on a Google search. I told him I can not be a supervisory appraiser since I have not taken the supervisor 7 hour class. He did not know what that was. I do not even think he knows that he must take also this class. I said "Good luck" and hung up the phone. There is no benefit for me to put my license in jeopardy while losing money in the process. 
  They have already started funding loans solely with AVM data. The AVM has no E & O Insurance to go after. Hopefully they will start prosecuting the Underwriters when loan defaults. Then we will see if a full interior appraisal by a CR is worth a flip.


There are way, way more loans being approved without appraisals then are being reported to anywhere we can get that data.  Someone said they have an 8% cap.  It appears to be more like 30% - and that's just a start.  I've had personal experiences where I got the order on a home I did a past appraisal for.  The guy had a very iffy job, lived in an iffy part of town (complex), the home was below average for the market and falling apart on the outside..   He was a sharer and shared the amount he was borrowing and what he said his house was worth. He was surprised of my call to set up the appraisal as the bank said he wouldn't need one.  I got in there quick, within a day..  and sure enough, right as I was uploading the order (48 hour turnaround) they tried to contact me to cancel the order.  Too late. I got paid but he was approved for a non-appraisal.  

However, the message was clear.  This is not for the rich, the secure, the predictable, or those only in cookie cutter suburbs with W2 jobs.  This is for ANYONE. 

I believe they are going at this like self insurance.  They hope to take the money saved and use it to write off fraud and inaccuracies.  If the market is always rising they should have no problems.  However, like most tenants, who can't make rent when they get a cold or their car needs a new battery, they are operating on the thinnest of margins.  History tells us corrections are sudden and deep.

The fact they got away with it last time has emboldened them.  Even more risk can be tolerated!!
So history will repeat it self yet again.

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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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BracketThis

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Reply with quote  #13 
I welcome the market correction when it does happen... I've been saving my money & gonna buy 4 or 5 houses out of foreclosure for $20-30k. Board them up & wait 5 years. By then I'll have some more money from REO work to renovate. Now I have 5 $100k+ houses to sell. If they want to play financial ping-pong I'll play to win.
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RubberStamp

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BracketThis
I welcome the market correction when it does happen... I've been saving my money & gonna buy 4 or 5 houses out of foreclosure for $20-30k. Board them up & wait 5 years. By then I'll have some more money from REO work to renovate. Now I have 5 $100k+ houses to sell. If they want to play financial ping-pong I'll play to win.


Agreed!  The only problem is it is very difficult to estimate when things will happen.  In my experience these bubbles last way longer than you ever thought they could.   We could have 5 more years.  Tough to sit on that money when the stock market is going bonkers.  I know, because like you, I'm much in cash waiting...  but have missed quite a ride trying to guess and time things and now trigger shy to purchase stocks or real estate due to the cost of entry.

The Trump factor was the X factor. Nobody expected him to win and we all forgot what a rising economy looks like ..  and not used to jumping in at market price.  

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We argue this: Meanwhile the agent's assistant just did 5 unofficial appraisal inspections they paired with a Zestimate and granted 90% LTV - all guaranteed no buy back.
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