Forum Header

Georgia Appraiser Forum

Provided by:   John M. Bryant, Inc., A Georgia Appraisal School

School Calendar | Phone Book | Appraisal Topics | Appraisal Questions | Other Topics

Forum Rules
Online Courses
Appraiser Search
MLS Analyzer


Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #1 
You have seen it before..  the sliding glass door to nowhere.   Usually up a story or half story.  The borrowers have it blocked off from the inside but with nothing permanent. 

On a conventional order are you conditioning the report or are you letting it fly as a floor to ceiling bay window?
0
MEP

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,779
Reply with quote  #2 
Yes, it is unsafe...I don't worry about the rules...I put it in the report...have only seen that a few times...they are not that difficult to remedy.
__________________
M. E.

"Don't call him a cowboy until you see him ride'
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #3 
talk to billding  
__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #4 
I conditioned it with the option for removal if the lender wants to go on record accepting liability.  Will update if I get push back.
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #5 
search the forum.  BillDing has made a fool of himself on this exact same topic elsewhere.
__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #6 
hopefully I didn't just do the same ...   Although the way I do things these days is to take the path of least liability and offer the client the option to interpret the guidelines differently and take responsibility.  Actually with some clients I reverse that..  I say I don't think its an issue but they have the ultimate say.. review the photos and request a condition if they do not agree.   Good photos are typically necessary.
0
Bobby

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 5,901
Reply with quote  #7 
Who was the dumb-ass that put screws in somebodies door? [rofl]
__________________

"America First".   President  Trump

0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #8 
I believe that BillDing was the dumbass putting screws in someone's sliding door.
__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
I believe that BillDing was the dumbass putting screws in someone's sliding door.


I guess that would work.  Wouldn't do it in a home I cared about though.
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #10 
It's just a future deck area.  The door must not be a safety hazard, thus it has to be permanently affixed...meaning it not be able to open.  Yes, screwing in wood blocks at the top satisfies this. (screws are permanent...as the cupboards are permanent because they are screwed in).  Of course, you'll have some dumb asses here saying that you have to remove the door or to build a deck.  What the hell...might as well condition it to have a four season porch  [rolleyes]
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #11 
screws are permanant?

Seriously???

So if I go out to my RV and run a bigass screw through the tire and into the dirt.... It becomes an ADU?



__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #12 
Seriously is right!  You're comparing foundation to permanent fixture?  Apples & oranges.
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #13 
Guys..  I have to agree with BillDing here...  that does solve the problem and will be a new solution I can suggest.  Typically it is the ugly banister across the back "screwed" in.   If you have to pull out a toolbox to dismantle it is a fixture.

The reality is all we are doing is our due diligence of pointing it out to everyone and making them aware of the danger.   A kid can fall out the window just as easily...
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #14 
The door can still slide open (for breeze)...but no more than 4 inches.
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #15 
I think what is happening here is that BillDing is being pressured by his client to do something "as-is" that clearly isn't finished.

It would be akin to doing an appraisal of a house with no exterior doors but instead a piece of plywood screwed in place.  Sure it blocks the opening and its safe but it isn't finished.

Same case here... The area is obviously intended for a deck, but there is no deck... It isn't finished.  

Like when you dig a huge hole in the back yard and fail to put in a liner and a pump.... Its a FUTURE POOL... BS... It isn't finished.

Just like no one calls an unfinished basement.... Future finished basement....It isn't finished.

What do you do when you do a house with no kitchen cabinets but instead just has cardboard boxes in place???? It isn't finished.

So by believing that a block of wood solves the finish problem.... Can you do an "as-is" appraisal on a house with no sheetrock as long as they install some cardboard on the walls????  Same scenario.

__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
LA

Avatar / Picture

Preferred Member
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #16 
That is so funny. I had the same thing today, not a sliding door, but a regular swing door. On the other side of the wall is a bathroom. Who does that? Why not just finish it? People are just crazy!
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
I think what is happening here is that BillDing is being pressured by his client to do something "as-is" that clearly isn't finished.

It would be akin to doing an appraisal of a house with no exterior doors but instead a piece of plywood screwed in place.  Sure it blocks the opening and its safe but it isn't finished.

Same case here... The area is obviously intended for a deck, but there is no deck... It isn't finished.  

Like when you dig a huge hole in the back yard and fail to put in a liner and a pump.... Its a FUTURE POOL... BS... It isn't finished.

Just like no one calls an unfinished basement.... Future finished basement....It isn't finished.

What do you do when you do a house with no kitchen cabinets but instead just has cardboard boxes in place???? It isn't finished.

So by believing that a block of wood solves the finish problem.... Can you do an "as-is" appraisal on a house with no sheetrock as long as they install some cardboard on the walls????  Same scenario.


Sounds like you haven't come across this too much meatloaf.  Actually what I'm talking about is a permanent situation in some homes.  Yes, a deck is "suggested" but the builder or buyer got cheap and/or lazy and do not finish.  They have already obtained lending in the past... most likely multiple times.  Most of the time I see some solution applied.  BillDing offers a new one although I would make them screw the wood in for no opening at all. 

Obviously when we are done they will just unscrew and go back to business as usual.  But you have covered your butt.

In the end what we have done is more than what the AVM will be doing when we are all replaced and that is my new measure of excellence.
0
treskirkland

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 672
Reply with quote  #18 
Only time I remember ever seeing this situation is when someone was replacing their deck and had not finished.  It is a huge safety issue, so I think it would need to be conditioned to be secured.  But, I also think there would be a huge marketability issue, not sure how you would figure out how much, but I'm sure it would be a hard property to sell.  
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by treskirkland
Only time I remember ever seeing this situation is when someone was replacing their deck and had not finished.  It is a huge safety issue, so I think it would need to be conditioned to be secured.  But, I also think there would be a huge marketability issue, not sure how you would figure out how much, but I'm sure it would be a hard property to sell.  


the marketability couldn't be figured but a cost to cure would be quite easy and probably very close to market reaction...  as they also would have a shiny new deck instead of an x year old deck
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #20 
Don't we all agree... Its unfinished?

It would be no different than a house with no windows but a piece of plywood screwed in place.

__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #21 
Lazy?  Yes.  But a deck is not necessary for a home to be complete and a glass door serves as a pretty good window.  The only issue is the danger which can be solved.
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberStamp
Lazy?  Yes.  But a deck is not necessary for a home to be complete and a glass door serves as a pretty good window.  The only issue is the danger which can be solved.


If you put a damn sliding door to nowhere.... Its incomplete.

Its no different than a front door with no steps leading to it.  Its incomplete.

Incomplete homes have a HUGE marketability issue that generally results in a HUGE market reaction in value.

Lets list other items that are not "required"....

Kitchen sinks, carpeting, paint, faucets, HVAC, etc....



__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
Bobby

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 5,901
Reply with quote  #23 
It's jerry-rigged and not normal.  Unfinished!  Lipstick on a pig, is still a pig....
__________________

"America First".   President  Trump

0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #24 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberStamp

BillDing offers a new one although I would make them screw the wood in for no opening at all.

4" opening is not a safety issue...if so, you would have to seal all deck and hand rail banisters up solid. 4" opening is like a deck banister spacing ...and yes, it meets building code. Often buyers don't have the money to add a deck or porch, so they have it done ready for a deck so they can complete it later when they have the money.  Nothing to do with being lazy...the builder would love to add a porch if the buyer had the money to do so.  Often bonus rooms over a garage, etc aren't finish.  Is the house unfinished?  No, of course it's finished...it just isn't credited for having a finished bonus room.  You certainly wouldn't call for the optional bonus room to be finished.  well, maybe a meathead would, lol. 


__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #25 
Finishing a bonus room is OPTIONAL.  If it is unfinished... It is attic.

Forgetting to put steps or a deck below a door opening is UNFINISHED.

Would you call a house finished if there were no front porch and the front door required a step ladder to access the house?  Oh... Just lock the door... Voila, Finished!!!!!!

Its like forgetting to put the shingles on top of the felt paper.... Sure, the house is water proof... The buyers will just FINISH the roof when they have money.

Lets say... In your example of the bonus room... Instead if it were the kitchen or a bathroom that wasn't finished.... Would you just not give it credit for having a finished kitchen or bathroom?



__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #26 
lol...you're a funny, meat.  No, it's optional.  It's not like having a ladder to access the house or not having shingles, neither of which meets building code.  It's like an unfinished bonus room or an unfinished basement.  Those, like adding a deck or wiring the house for surround sound in every room with temp speaker plates in place for future speakers is optional and are there to make future improvements easier.
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #27 
So you pretend to be an expert on building code???? Are you basing your value on whether it meets code or not?

I tend to base my opinion of market value on the reaction of buyers and sellers.  A sliding door that has been nailed shut is unfinished.


If there were a deck installed and it was rotten and dangerous, simply placing a nail in the door so it doesn't open wouldn't be acceptable.  But why do you think it would be acceptable since there is no deck at all?

I did a house for FHA a few weeks ago.  The rear deck was DANGEROUS.  I did the report subject to structural inspection and repairs if necessary.  The structural engineer recommended replacement of the deck... He didn't recommend putting a nail in the door so that the deck was inaccessible.



__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
MEP

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,779
Reply with quote  #28 
This topic is not that difficult...we are trying to appraise the overall property, if there is a contributory deficiency, make an adjustment and then state if or how much it will effect value or marketability. It is a safety issue nothing more....I have only seen a few, securing the sliding glasses only converts them to a large picture window...not a big deal.


__________________
M. E.

"Don't call him a cowboy until you see him ride'
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEP
This topic is not that difficult...we are trying to appraise the overall property, if there is a contributory deficiency, make an adjustment and then state if or how much it will effect value or marketability. It is a safety issue nothing more....I have only seen a few, securing the sliding glasses only converts them to a large picture window...not a big deal.



I agree.  Meatloaf is usually spot on..  and with the amount of orders he handles I'm not sure how he hasn't run into this more often.  If I've read him correctly I don't think there's a chance that he conditions the home to have a deck added.  But I've been surprised before.
0
Bobby

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 5,901
Reply with quote  #30 
This should be called "How well can you bullsh!t your way out of a repair".

1 screw cures the problem?
A door is now a window?  Oh make sure it opens 4" for a draft...

Come on, let's not start bullsh!tting each other.



Image result for crowd facepalm gif

__________________

"America First".   President  Trump

0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberStamp


I agree.  Meatloaf is usually spot on..  and with the amount of orders he handles I'm not sure how he hasn't run into this more often.  If I've read him correctly I don't think there's a chance that he conditions the home to have a deck added.  But I've been surprised before.


To be honest with you... This condition is so rare that I can't remember the last time or if EVER I have run into this.  Generally, people finish their homes.... Since it would be difficult to get financing on a home that is unfinished.

I did run into a house the other day.  Rear deck was about 5 feet off the ground.  It was totally frucked.  I conditioned the report on professional inspection and any repairs deemed necessary.  The professional that inspected it deemed that it was time for a new deck.

That is how you handle it.

When you run into this issue do you really condition the report on putting a screw in the track so that the door only opens 4 inches?????  This is a completion item, not a safety issue.  It was clearly designed for a deck.... So build a deck.

What does it matter to you?  You are the appraiser... Why are you concerned with their cost to build a deck?  If the client tells them to just put a screw in the door and call it a day... Then that is on the client.  Why would you suggest that someone do that?  Sounds like you are suggesting someone do something that isn't in a WORKMANLIKE manner.

Does the track have a pre-drilled place for a screw or block to be installed?  I didn't think so.... It wasn't designed for that.  It was designed to be opened fully.  So now you are advocating that you DAMAGE a sliding door track.... Why??

__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
Bobby

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 5,901
Reply with quote  #32 
The logic here is .... a car is a paper weight if you take the wheels off.
__________________

"America First".   President  Trump

0
treskirkland

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 672
Reply with quote  #33 
I wonder if you could even get a CO on a new home with a door to nowhere.  In 24 years appraising I've never seen this in a new home, only in older homes where the deck was removed for whatever reason. 
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #34 

As far as trying to compare a bad deck, securing the door would not fix the safety hazard as the hazard is the deck, not falling out of the door.

and yes...this is done on new construction.


__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing

As far as trying to compare a bad deck, securing the door would not fix the safety hazard as the hazard is the deck, not falling out of the door.

and yes...this is done on new construction.



So if securing the door wouldn't cure the safety hazard... Why does it cure the safety hazard associated with having no deck?  You are contradicting yourself.

Would you agree, if the deck was a second story deck and not accessible from the ground that securing the door would eliminate access to the deck thereby removing the safety hazard????

__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #36 
because the deck is the hazard.  You only cured walking out to it from the house...you can still access the deck from the outside.
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #37 
as far as your 2nd story scenario, than yes, the safety hazard is cured.  If the photo below had a safety issue with the upper deck and the door is permanently affixed, then the appraiser would have nothing to condition the report for because there is no safety hazard since it can't be accessed

The design was changed and allowed for better traffic flow, especially with the addition of the paver patio. Timbertech Earthwood Decking was installed with a Cedar Railing including black aluminum pickets.



__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Bobby

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 5,901
Reply with quote  #38 
That is not common for the market at all.
__________________

"America First".   President  Trump

0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDing
as far as your 2nd story scenario, than yes, the safety hazard is cured.  If the photo below had a safety issue with the upper deck and the door is permanently affixed, then the appraiser would have nothing to condition the report for because there is no safety hazard since it can't be accessed

The design was changed and allowed for better traffic flow, especially with the addition of the paver patio. Timbertech Earthwood Decking was installed with a Cedar Railing including black aluminum pickets.




In that case, we can condition every appraisal on a perimeter fence.  That way the house cannot be accessed and therefore no safety hazards exist.

__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,697
Reply with quote  #40 
I would condition for a Juliet balcony made of stained 2X4's.
0
Nomad

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,697
Reply with quote  #41 
Forgot to put a joke emoji to avoid confusing people w/ written sarcasm. 😀
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #42 
[rofl]
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #43 
Crap.  I got one of these today.
__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
RubberStamp

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,826
Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatloaf
Crap.  I got one of these today.


Holy Karma...
Bet you recommend the screws..   hahah
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #45 
Actually.... The one I have is a little different.  It was a homemade enclosed porch about 2-3 feet off the ground with about 7 sliding glass doors as the exterior walls.  I don't think falling out an open door would lead to certain death so I may leave it as-is.  But a second story sliding glass door is a bit of a different story as it clearly is designed for a deck that isn't there.
__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #46 
20170617_015342-1328x747.jpg 
I did a nice home, but the home surround system wasn't put in.  Notice the speaker cover on the ceiling.  These were in the whole house.  Obviously they didn't finish it, so I conditioned the appraisal to install a $15,000 home Klipsch surround system. Dam lazy people.  The nerve.


__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Meatloaf

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,747
Reply with quote  #47 
No bill,

The photo you show is actually finished.  Now if they had put a couple strips of duct tape over the hole or simply left it empty, that would be unfinished.


FHA even addresses this kind of crap with appliances.  Slide in range?? Not necessary.  Hole in counter top where drop in range top is supposed to be.... Got to have it.


__________________
STANK is full of SHIT!
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #48 
I agree with you above...but I along with FHA, VA, FNMA, Building codes, etc don't agree with you regarding a deck/porch prepped house.  The only issue you have is when the door isn't secured and can be opened by a kid, risking injury if they fall out.
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
MEP

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,779
Reply with quote  #49 
Are we responsible for building code violations? Most appraisers don't know "shinola" about building codes, or care!
__________________
M. E.

"Don't call him a cowboy until you see him ride'
0
BillDing

Avatar / Picture

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,303
Reply with quote  #50 
Moot point when it's not a violation.  [smile]
__________________
****Karma means I can rest easy at night knowing all the people I treated badly had it coming***
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Appraisal Topics | Appraisal Questions | Other Topics