1004MC question (not what you think) - Georgia Appraiser Forum

Platinum Member
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 550

11/04/09 at 01:22 PM

#51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Retarded Rooster

1. One who displays their superior knowledge only to downtrod those who care to question them without providing supporting evidence as to why or how their supreme knowledge of the appraisal process actually any better than those who they choose to belittle.

First off, I have never belittled you. When I belittle you, believe me, you will know. Second, I have no need to display my "superior knowledge". I get no kick from trying to prove that I am better than someone else. I believe that people have their own strengths and weaknesses and I am a pretty humble person. Third, I do not know how much more "supporting evidence" I can provide. I have given you definitions, I have given you passages from statistical text books, and more... Still it is not good enough for you. I am starting to think that either a) you are too thick headed to get out of your own way and think for once or b) are not intelligent enough to think about the question that is asked of you and grasp a complex concept or C) just like stirring the crap pot and like the attention you receive from being a "devils advocate". I used to believe that it was just A and C but now I am starting to think that B might be the correct answer there. I used to just get frustrated by you but I am really starting to wonder if you can grasp advanced theory or even the simplest concepts.

Quote:

2. One who never questions their proceedures because they know that they are right and everyone else is wrong regardless of the fact that they cannot prove how or why they are right without just accepting the fact that they are correct because they are superior to anyone that questions their methods.

Sounds like you just described yourself there buck-a-roo! Believe me, I question my procedures all the time. I question my reports all the time. I question my data all the time. I question everything. I really do not use "quick picks" because I think that it makes a lazy appraiser. I do not want to rely on a comment that I made 4 years ago for todays market. What, I guess, sets me apart from you is that I know what to do after I am done questioning. In one thread, you accuse me of questioning too much and now you state that I do not question enough. Give me a break...

Quote:

3. Anyone who argues that they are better than a form filler by using the argument that the form is wrong and that they appraise by correcting the form and providing better answers than the form ask.

If your form is wrong, you have to fix it. If you can not answer the question that your client has asked (in this case "overall trend") with the data available to you, you must do one of the things above that I have pointed out to you 10 times. I think that you really should start paying attention in those USPAP classes that you are taking from John. I hate to think that he is just not teaching them well. Maybe John will put back together another 90 hour course and you can just get a fresh new start on what your job SHOULD be.

Platinum Member
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 1,849

11/04/09 at 01:27 PM

#52

OK, so let me get this right. Since two appraisers believe that the first section of the 1004mc is misleading by referring to "overall trend" it is a violation of uspap to not do an overall trend of all sales rather than provide an overall trend of the three numbers to the left of the check boxes. Therefore every appraiser that marks the check boxes like the form instructs us to is misleading the client and thereby violating GA law and USPAP. This is regardless of the fact that the client can also read the instructions on the 1004mc form and with minimal deduction figure out what the check boxes are referring to.

In other words, since you don't understand what the form is asking for then I am an idiot. Can you please provide some support for your position that fnma wants a trend on all data points of comp sales rather than a trend on the data to the left of the check boxes? It appears to me that they want us to consider the trends indicated by the median sale prices to the left since that is what they explicitly tell you to do on the form just above the area in question.

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Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/04/09 at 01:45 PM

#53

Quote:

Guidelines for Using Form 1004MC

The Form 1004MC is intended to provide the lender with a clear and accurate understanding of the market trends and conditions prevalent in the subject neighborhood. The form provides the appraiser with a structured format to report the data and to more easily identify current market trends and conditions. The appraiser’s conclusions are to be reported in the "Neighborhood" section of the appraisal report.

Fannie Mae recognizes that all of the requested data elements for analysis are not equally available in all markets. In some markets it may not be possible to retrieve the total number of comparable active listings from earlier periods. If this is the case, the appraiser must explain the attempt to obtain such information. Also, there may be markets in which the data is available in terms of an "average" as opposed to a "median." In this case, the appraiser needs to note that his or her analysis has been based on an "average" representation of the data. Regardless of whether all requested information is available, the appraiser must provide support for his or her conclusions regarding market trends and conditions.

11/14/2008
Announcement 08-30
page 2

My interpretation is that if you have data you should provide support for your conclusions and as such this may mean more than looking at three numbers provided by one source and checking a box.

Or you could do it Jody's way!

NWGA

I hope that the color overlay helps with the lack of understanding! I think this is what both appraisers are trying to help with and explain why boy chickens and girl chickens are different. You are required to provide support for your conclusions regarding market trends and conditions.

Have a nice day! I have to get back to work!

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11/04/09 at 01:58 PM

#54

Nice way to change the subject. The top of the mc states how to fill out the form. The bottom of the mc wants you to indicate how you arrived at the numbers on the top to the left of the checkbox that is susposed to be checked using the data to the left of it.

Maybe next time you might want to read the form before you decide if it is crap and worthy of your re-writing.

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USA_1st
Gold Member
Registered: 09/15/08
Posts: 81

11/04/09 at 02:02 PM

#55

While the FAQ's are NOT part of USPAP, in this situation they will clearly provide an unbiased position on this matter. Bold remarks are added for emphasis specific to the question of this thread.

257. APPRAISAL REPORT FORMS COMPLIANCE WITH USPAP
Question: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and other governmental and private entities issue appraisal report forms. Do these forms comply with USPAP?

Response: It is the position of the ASB that appraisers comply with USPAP, NOT FORMS. Each assignment is different, and no form could cover all USPAP requirements for all assignments. Appraisal report forms are simply TOOLS to assist in organizing the reporting of assignment results. It is the responsibility of the appraiser to properly develop an appraisal, and to properly report the assignment results. A template or form may or may not adequately report the assignment results. It may be necessary for the appraiser to supplement a form with addenda to comply with USPAP requirements.

This FAQ is built upon the comments in Standards Rule 2-2 (Which is a binding part of USPAP)that states:

The report content and level of information requirements set forth in this Standard are minimums for each type of report. An appraiser must supplement a report FORM, when necessary, to ensure that any intended user of the appraisal is not misled and that the report complies with the applicable content requirements set forth in this Standards Rule.

With that being said, is the 1004MC sufficient to communicate credible results? Sometimes YES!! Always?? NO!

It is incumbent on the appraiser to determine the SOW necessary to produce credible RESULTS, not to FILL IN THE BLANKS. If in the appraisers opinion, that the parameters as established by the FORM do NOT tell the entire story or could be misleading, THE APPRAISER MUST apply appropriate judgement and perform appropriate analysis to produce CREDIBLE results. An appraiser CAN NOT simply hide behind lack of data or laziness as a reason to not provide appropriate analysis.

For those who choose to perform the minimum, operate at your own risk. It is reckless to recommend minimum behavior to others.

Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/04/09 at 02:07 PM

#56

Jody-maybe you should read the 08-30 fannie mae announcement!

While supplies last Jody has wrong answers at 1/2 price!

NWGA

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Posts: 1,849

11/04/09 at 02:19 PM

#57

You are not violating uspap to answer a question on a form.

The form ask what is the flood zone, you answer it. Uspap doesn't require that you provide the flood zone, but the form does. No big deal.

The form states to take three numbers and report if these numbers are increasing or decreasing. Uspap doesn't require this information, the form does. To simply answer the question is not a uspap violation.

However, to disagree with the question and provide the answer to another question just because you don't consider yourself a form filler might be construed as a uspap violation because you are misleading the reader by not abiding by the instructions clearly printed on the form.

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Posts: 550

11/04/09 at 02:20 PM

#58

Jody,

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and try ONE more time to explain this to you.

Take a look at the 1004MC form that I have attached to this message. According to your "method" you would say that the 7-12 month period had 124 sales, the 4-6 month period had 85 sales, and the 0-3 month had 78 sales. According to your method, you would mark "Declining". The first box is higher than the next box which is higher than the last box. Right? That is fundamentally and inherently wrong. Lets go over the reasons why:

1) You can not compare the 7-12 month to the other two periods in ANY way. They are not the same in any way. You do not know if that make up was 22 houses selling in one three month period in that 6 month span and 102 selling within the other. You have NO IDEA what makes up that 124 number, other than in those 6 months you had 124 houses sell.

2) You also can not mark declining in that box based on the two three month periods because that is NOT an "overall trend".

3) This most likely should have been part of #1, but you in no way have accounted for seasonal variances. Now you might when you mark your box but no where in what you state that you do, do you admit to taking in seasonal variances. You can not extract the seasonal variance from the data in its current for (and you would have to go into historical data finding to do a seasonal variance).

What you are doing WILL lead to non-credible and misleading results. It would be like me trying to tell you that unemployment is down because if you add of the 1st and 2nd quarters of 2009 you would get an unemployment rate of 18.2% and the unemployment rate from the 3rd quarter is 10.2%... See it has gone down!!!

You can not do this straight line comparison with any of these boxes at the top of the 1004MC. I would also argue that you can not do it with any of the boxes on the bottom part of the data grid, but lets just stick with the top for right now. The form wants you to calculate the absorption rate based on the total sales divided by the number of months. That is fine but you are still comparing a 6 month data set to two three month data sets and trying to divide that number by the number of month. That does not make them equal and that does not help you arrive at an overall trend. It is actually the WORST thing you can do because a variance in the data in the first period, 7-12 months, is going to washed out against 5 other months where a variance in one of the 3 month periods is only going to be washed out by 2 other month. So you are weighting the data differently.

Again, lets review what an "overall trend" is:

Quote:

The overall trend is a descriptive parameter for the trend slope over the whole period studied. It is the slope of the regression line through the logarithm of the indices or time-totals.

I did not make up that definition.. that is a accepted term. By doing what you are saying, you are not analyzing the whole period studied and/or you are not using data that correlates to each other. Yes, the form is inherently flawed but so is your method. Worst of all, you KNOW it and admit it but try to state that that is what the form asks so that is what you provided. If you know something that you are doing is wrong, if you know it could/will lead to misleading results, if you know the method is not credible.... You bet your ass you are bound by USPAP to fix it or not do it. FNMA has NO duty to USPAP. They do not give a damn about USPAP. So FNMA does not care if their form creates a problem with USPAP. But that does not relieve your burden of USPAP.

What you SHOULD do it this. Run your data in 3 month periods. Then add the 7-9 and 10-12 month periods together to get your 7-12, BUT leave them close by to do you over all analysis with. Now you have two sets of data, one that fits into the form that FNMA has provided and one that you can run an overall trend on. Now, you SHOULD weigh your data for seasonal variances now that you have it apart and use that difference in result vs the typical seasonal variance dictate your analysis. But that is Stats 301 and were are still in the undergrad program lessons right now.

Any of that sink home?!? I am sure that I could keep going, but I do have some work to get done. If any of that still confuses you, I will be more than happy to explain what I can. If you are just going to be thick headed and come back with the same comments that are ill-informed, please save your time and mine!

Attached Files:
1004MC_for_Jody.PDF (53.44 KB, 3 views)

Platinum Member
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 1,849

11/04/09 at 02:48 PM

#59

Brandon,

First off, let me state that I agree with everything you just said.

Now, let me simplify and explain my point of view a little better.

First forget that the data is spread out among one 6 month period and two 3 month periods. The data that you analyzed is placed in these catagories and is represented as correct and actually answers the question on the form.

For example You are to determine the median sale price for comps for each time period. No problem, you do that and put the numbers in the box as you should. That is question one.

Now the second question implys that you then look at those numbers (forget for a minute that the time periods are different intervals) and indicate the overall trend.

Example: Lets rename the time periods into first, second, third and forget about the time intervals. The first time period indicates a higher number than the third time period. Therefore, overall the trend is decreasing.

The form is not asking for a regression indicating all of your raw data. The form simply wants you to take the data that you have already presented and tell them if the first time period is greater, less than, or equal to the last.

I know it is confusing, and I don't like the layout of the form any more than you do. But fnma does not ask for a complete regression of your raw data. And, for some reason they want you to compare a 6 month period to a 3 month period. That must mean something to the fine people at fnma.

I am not going to argue with fnma, and I am not saying you are wrong. It appears that we have both read the form and interpret it in different ways.

Whether you like the form or not is irrelevant. All you are doing is simply answering the question on the form. Answering the question is not a uspap violation, especially when the method to answer the question is presented on the form. If fnma didn't specifically state to take the data on the form to answer the questions, then it might be a uspap violation. But they tell you to develop the trend using the calculated data not the raw data. In doing so, you are simply answering their question not violating uspap.

You are then free to provide an addenda explaining how the whole form sucks and you are the best appraiser in the world and present your data and trends elsewhere. But to do so on the 1004mc would be a bit misleading.

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USA_1st
Gold Member
Registered: 09/15/08
Posts: 81

11/04/09 at 03:08 PM

#60

Quote:

The form ask what is the flood zone, you answer it. Uspap doesn't require that you provide the flood zone, but the form does. No big deal.

Of course it is not a violation to answer the question. However, it IS a USPAP violation to give the wrong answer.

If you reviewed the flood map, and the flood map indicates the property is NOT in a flood zone, however upon inspection, you notice a nearby creek and evidence of prior flooding, are you going to ignore what you discovered, or are you just going to fill in the blank and state "That is all the form asked for?"

I am beginning to find this thread disturbing. There are 100's of views, meaning several are reading. I hope that this mentality is not the majority. Given the current state of affairs, I am afraid that it may be.

And we want champion that the HVCC is the problem? Maybe it is time for us to look in the mirror and spend some time self reflecting.

Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/04/09 at 03:19 PM

#61

Quote:

I am beginning to find this thread disturbing. I hope that this mentality is not the majority. Given the current state of affairs, I am afraid that it may be.

You bet this thread is disturbing, its like watching a blind man who has never seen an elephant try and describe one by feel!

You can not fix stupid!

NWGA

Platinum Member
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 550

11/04/09 at 03:33 PM

#62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody
Brandon,

First off, let me state that I agree with everything you just said.

Ok, we are off to a good start....

Quote:

Now, let me simplify and explain my point of view a little better.

PLEASE do...

Quote:

First forget that the data is spread out among one 6 month period and two 3 month periods. The data that you analyzed is placed in these catagories and is represented as correct and actually answers the question on the form.

Oops, this is where the train jumps the tracks. You can just just forget that the data is in two different types of periods.

Quote:

For example You are to determine the median sale price for comps for each time period. No problem, you do that and put the numbers in the box as you should. That is question one.

I was going to stick to the top part of the 1004MC, but the bottom is not much different. You still have TWO different types of data. One taken as the median sales price over the 6 month period and two taken as the median for the two 3 month periods. Furthermore, an analysis of sales prices over 6 months is also going to be skewed greater by seasonal variances.

Quote:

Now the second question implys that you then look at those numbers (forget for a minute that the time periods are different intervals) and indicate the overall trend.

Again, you can not simply just "forget" that the data is from two separate time periods. You can not derive an overall trend with data from two different time periods. You just can not do it. It is fundamentally mathematically and statistically wrong.

Quote:

Example: Lets rename the time periods into first, second, third and forget about the time intervals. The first time period indicates a higher number than the third time period. Therefore, overall the trend is decreasing.

Again, I do not care what you name the fields, it is TWO different sets of data when it is in the 1004MC form.

Quote:

The form is not asking for a regression indicating all of your raw data. The form simply wants you to take the data that you have already presented and tell them if the first time period is greater, less than, or equal to the last.

It IS asking you for the regression... A regression can be, and most often is, an overall trend. You do not need to do the regression on your raw data, if you do not want to. Do your regression (overall trend) on only 4 data points, 0-3 months, 4-6 months, 7-9 months and 10-12 months. That would be MUCH better than what you do and would not produce misleading results.

Quote:

I know it is confusing, and I don't like the layout of the form any more than you do. But fnma does not ask for a complete regression of your raw data. And, for some reason they want you to compare a 6 month period to a 3 month period. That must mean something to the fine people at fnma.

Again, then do not give them a complete regression of your RAW data... But do give them one based off usable data!!! Nowhere in the form does it say that you are to use the three fields provided exclusively for your overall trend. So maybe there is some reason they want the data split up that way, but I am sure they also assume that you would know what an overall trend is and be able to extract one correctly.

Quote:

I am not going to argue with fnma, and I am not saying you are wrong. It appears that we have both read the form and interpret it in different ways.

Yes, very different ways. I realize that your way WILL produce misleading results that are skewed toward the 6 month period.

Quote:

Whether you like the form or not is irrelevant. All you are doing is simply answering the question on the form. Answering the question is not a uspap violation, especially when the method to answer the question is presented on the form. If fnma didn't specifically state to take the data on the form to answer the questions, then it might be a uspap violation. But they tell you to develop the trend using the calculated data not the raw data. In doing so, you are simply answering their question not violating uspap.

Look at the post that USA made about the role of forms in USPAP and then think about your statement. USPAP does not give a crap about what FNMA has asked of you and FNMA does not give a crap about USPAP. YOU are the one that has to care about BOTH. And when the two conflict, you must adhere to USPAP at a minimum. FNMA can ask MORE of you, but never less. FNMA can ask you to do something that would be biased, racist, misleading, or non-credible, but USPAP forbids it and your MUST adhere to USPAP. FNMA can ask all they want and produce all the forms they want, you clients can ask all they want and use the forms all they way but you are NEVER allowed to do it. So you have the same choices that I explained before. You can fix the form and data so that it produces credible results and explain what you did, you can refuse to complete the form and even offer to come up with your own addendum with the data that would not be misleading, or you can reject to do the assignment. Those are your options... Doing it the way that you are is not one of those options!

Quote:

You are then free to provide an addenda explaining how the whole form sucks and you are the best appraiser in the world and present your data and trends elsewhere. But to do so on the 1004mc would be a bit misleading.

I make my comments about the methodology directly on the 1004MC form and write an additional two page 1004MC addendum. I highly doubt you can honestly say that you provide any explanation about how and why your results are misleading.

Platinum Member
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 1,849

11/04/09 at 03:43 PM

#63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_Gray

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody
Brandon,

First off, let me state that I agree with everything you just said.

Ok, we are off to a good start....

Quote:

Now, let me simplify and explain my point of view a little better.

PLEASE do...

Quote:

Oops, this is where the train jumps the tracks. You can just just forget that the data is in two different types of periods.

Quote:

For example You are to determine the median sale price for comps for each time period. No problem, you do that and put the numbers in the box as you should. That is question one.

Quote:

Now the second question implys that you then look at those numbers (forget for a minute that the time periods are different intervals) and indicate the overall trend.

Quote:

Again, I do not care what you name the fields, it is TWO different sets of data when it is in the 1004MC form.

Quote:

I am not going to argue with fnma, and I am not saying you are wrong. It appears that we have both read the form and interpret it in different ways.

Yes, very different ways. I realize that your way WILL produce misleading results that are skewed toward the 6 month period.

Quote:

I explain my analysis quite well, thank you.

Anyway, You might want to look at the little video training on the 1004mc. It might shed some light on how they intend for the form to be filled out.

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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/04/09 at 04:06 PM

#64

As I have said, you can not fix what can not be learned.

NWGA

Platinum Member
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 550

11/04/09 at 04:11 PM

#65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody

Anyway, You might want to look at the little video training on the 1004mc. It might shed some light on how they intend for the form to be filled out.

I DO NOT CARE what FNMA's intent for the form is... They do not dictate what is right and wrong in the reporting of the data. I have an agent that provides me with a fruit basket with the intent that I will change my appraised value. Thanks for the fruit basket but for me to change my value based on your basket would be a violation of USPAP.

But, as an example of how I do not think that I have all the answers and maybe there is something else on FNMA's site that could make me understand your view or help prove you correct, I took your advice and watched the video about the 1004MC again AND looked up FNMA's FAQ on the 1004MC. I thank you for recommending that I do so... It was very eye opening. I suggest that you do the same.

Lets see what FNMA says about their intent for the 1004MC. Here is a quote from them:

Quote:

Due to the complexity of the current real estate market, Fannie Mae created the Market Conditions Addendum to capture additional information to enhance the transparency of the market trends and conditions conclusions made by the appraiser.

That is from FNMA's FAQ about the 1004MC. So they want data and results that "capture additional information" and "enhance the transparency of the market trends" and add transparency to the conclusions made by the appraiser. The way in which you are completing the 1004MC do NONE of those things that FNMA states that they want to accomplish with your use of that form.

And for my last point for you.. Lets see what FNMA says about the overall trends and the use of the one 6 month period and the two 3 month periods....

From question #9 of FNMA's FAQ on the 1004MC

Quote:

Q: When the inventory analysis is completed, should the data show a trend?

A: The data may show a trend/direction or no trend at all. However, it is important to remember that the time periods for the analysis include one six-month period and two three-month periods. The appraiser MUST properly analyze the first column BEFORE determining any trend.

There you have it.... You wanted your "proof"?!? What more do you need?!? Case closed!!!

You might want to check out #19 in that link too, if you are still confused about Sow. You also might want to check out page 6-7 about "overall trend" and see how that exactly matches the definition of a regression.

Platinum Member
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Posts: 1,849

11/04/09 at 04:13 PM

#66

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWGA
As I have said, you can not fix what can not be learned.

NWGA

Where did you read that? In a fortune cookie?

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Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/04/09 at 04:19 PM

#67

Nope, I read that every-time I read one of your post. What you don't know is dangerous and what you do on this forum is misleading and ignorant.

I think whoever taught you what they did, you will never overcome it!

NWGA

TolietBowl

Platinum Member
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 209

11/04/09 at 04:35 PM

#68

I say Stable...You can look at it really 4 ways.

1. as the form reads left to right and you might say decline
2. as 1/2 year to other 1/2 year = incline
3. as per day based = stable 1.46/day, 2.4/day, and 2.1/day
4. Just pick one.

yoda
Platinum Member
Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 307

11/04/09 at 05:32 PM

#69

It is an opinion.

Several look at same data and form different opinions.

Look at the poll question. No answer is right or wrong in this case.

Platinum Member
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 550

11/04/09 at 05:57 PM

#70

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoda
It is an opinion.

Several look at same data and form different opinions.

Yep USA, I am very disturbed by the answers....

It is not an opinion... If you made the argument that the word "stable" is subjective, I could buy that. (Although, I would still contend that stable is based off of historical norms for the marketing area.) That is about the only "opinion" that comes into it.

Other than the comment above, there are not several different outcomes. Toilet is wrong as well. It is kind of like those trick questions you had back in high school or college. One answer is the MOST correct and the others only give you partial credit.

Toilet states that you can combine the two 3 month periods into one 6 month period and compare that to the other 6 month period. While this is a valid attempt, it is still not correct. It is kind of like reporting a fraction as 8/3. You will not see it done, that is not its simplest form. Same kind of here. Because the data could/would be skewed by seasonal variances, a more accurate representation would be in 4 periods of 3 months.

We already know his first option is invalid because YOU CAN NOT COMPARE TWO DIFFERENT DATA SETS.

His third option is not really meaningful either. That would be an example of a type of absorption rate. a) FNMA has already asked you to analyze the absorption rate b) absorption rates are reported in real estate on a monthly basis, not a daily or weekly basis and c) even if correct, such a method would have no effect on any fields except the two that have to deal with the number of sold homes and the number of listings.

So not to pick a fight (further than I have), but I don't think people who are reading this thread are informed as to what they are signing their name to. I really am concerned and disturbed.

Quote:

Look at the poll question. No answer is right or wrong in this case.

That is because the correct answer is not up there. The correct answer is that "you can not extrapolate an overall trend from the data set provided".

yoda
Platinum Member
Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 307

11/05/09 at 09:36 AM

#71

How would you classify these numbers?

There is no wrong answer to you question.

yoda
Platinum Member
Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 307

11/05/09 at 09:36 AM

#72

How would you classify these numbers?

There is no wrong answer to your question.

yoda
Platinum Member
Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 307

11/05/09 at 09:38 AM

#73

When you ask someone how they would do sometihing - there is no right or wrong answer.

Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/05/09 at 09:59 AM

#74

I am not sure I support that statement. I think there are right ways to do things and wrong ways. Its not a I like the color blue and you don't.

Quote:

Total number of sales:

7-12 Months- 264
4-6 Months- 216
Current- 3 Months- 190

There is not enough information to mark a box.

I just don't think that the process is understood and the replies that I have seen support that logic. Yoda you seem to employ deeper thought than the average poster on this forum but there is a right answer. The problem with this is there are different opinions but there is a right answer. You can not limit the thread to two wrong choices.

NWGA

yoda
Platinum Member
Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 307

11/05/09 at 10:16 AM

#75

The question was

How would YOU classify these numbers?

Therefore there is no right or wrong answer.

Example:

What would YOU classify these football teams?

There is no right or wrong answer to that question

yoda
Platinum Member
Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 307

11/05/09 at 10:46 AM

#76

How would YOU classify these numbers?

This question has no right or wrong answer

How would you correctlyclassify these numbers?

This question would mostly likely have a correct answer.

Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/05/09 at 10:48 AM

#77

There is a right answer, it is your opinion that there is not!

The answer may take additional steps, additional research and additional effort but there is an answer.

It is your opinion that there is no answer, I can respect that, I just disagree.

Now if you have an answer share it, explain it and enlighten us but know that any answer based upon that data only is incomplete and suspect due to the lack of explanation supplied with the question.

This is not a test question where it is not within the world and only the question matters it deals with the interpretations of data sets and the inference of statistical analysis. So, there is an answer, the supplied information is lacking enough to make a credible answer.

Maybe that is my point here, based upon that data and that question I can not supply a credible answer, and you can supply an answer, it just is not credible.

NWGA

Platinum Member
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 550

11/05/09 at 11:06 AM

#78

If I asked you how YOU would fix my TV and you stated "With a hammer and beat it over and over again" that would be a wrong answer. You would not have fixed my TV and that was part of the question. The word "correctly" is implied. Why would anyone want you to incorrectly fix their TV. (or analyze data) If I hire a TV repair man and he comes to my house and beats my TV with a hammer. When I stop him and say "What the hell are you doing?!?" and he replied, "I am fixing your TV!" When I start beating him with the hammer I do not expect his excuse to be, "You never told me you wanted me to CORRECTLY fix your TV!" Correct analysis from an appraiser is always implied. No one should have to stipulate to you that they want you to correctly analyze the market or data.

"How would you classify these numbers" is an invalid question when given a data set that can not be classified in the manner in which you request. So to classify those numbers is a wrong answer. (or at least a very poorly thought out one) As Rusty states, maybe the correct "answer" is that your can not provide a credible answer to the question from the choices given. You can supply an answer, but it would not be credible. Maybe that is a good middle ground.

scrc
Gold Member
Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 97

11/05/09 at 11:42 AM

#79

This thread has become ridiculous. How long are you guys going to beat this dead horse. You all seem to desperately want someone to post and say "Yes...You are absolutely, positively, without a doubt, 100% correct". It should be clear to you now that it isn't going to happen. You say over and over again that you are really worried about the profession. Well so am I if some of our so called "brightest and best" will spend days on a forum calling each other names and fighting over who is right and who is wrong. Grow up and do your jobs and stop acting like kids in kindergarten.

MikeL

Platinum Member
Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 125

11/05/09 at 12:45 PM

#80

Scrc has said the most intelligent thing on this thread so far. GET A LIFE PEOPLE!!!! It amazes me how smart Brandon and Rusty are but have all day to type up responses.

__________________
A duck was about to cross the road when a chicken came running up and said... don't do it man ... you will never here the end of it!

Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/05/09 at 01:15 PM

#81

Its funny that people like Mike L always have a lets end this before you prove something attitude.

First, I am working from 7:30am to 5-6:30 most days 5 to 6, on the road or in the office so if you think I have too much time on my hands- so what.

Next, the reason some of these points are pushed is very simple- there is so much wrong opinion on how to do appraisal work on this forum it is the only way to reach someone who might want to improve their skill set.

Now if scrc and MikeL already know the answer then move on to another topic. If not then put something about the thread- as neither one of you know me or Brandon, my business or how much I work.

Being right about a subject is not superior, it is what they pay us for! Now if MikeL and scrc have something to add to the interpretation of data for the 1004mc please do, if not and all you want is to talk down, then step off! With only 4.5 years of experience as a licensed then CR and less than that for scrc I would think that such information would be real important to you Mike! I am sure that some on here like it quick and easy but that is the problem with this topic it is not a quick nor easy analysis.

NWGA

Platinum Member
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 550

11/05/09 at 02:53 PM

#82

I just got back from seeing two appraisal in Atlanta and a field review in Decatur. Yep, I am working just fine thank you very much. Tomorrow I have a $2.2M house in Alpharetta, another home in John's creek and a home in up in Barrow Co. I work from about 8:00am til about 3:25pm when my son gets home. We do his home work and I start dinner. We spend some more quality time together until he goes to bed at about 7:30pm and then I might go back down to my office and work until 10:00pm or later, depending on what is on TV. Is there anything else you would like to know about my schedule, Mark?!? It is really nice to know enough, and have good enough tools, to be able to put out a proper report in nice amount of time. It gives me more time to "chat" with you nice folks.

Stacy, I have no need to have someone say, "You are right and you are the best appraiser in the world." (Ok maybe I need to hear Jody say it a little since he was SO sure about what FNMA wanted but has been silent since) But really, it is no stroke to my ego, as I am pretty sure it is not a stroke to Rusty's ego or USA's ego or a few other people's. Many people on here, for some reason take a person being right as also being pompous.. It still eludes me as to why. I am about a humble as they get but I know when I am right. If I am wrong, I have no problem saying so and thanking the person who taught me something new or made me think about something in a new way.

Also, there is a difference between "arguing" and having a debate/conversation/discussion. It would behoove a few people to learn the difference. Kids in kindergarten can not discuss or converse. They do not have the logic skills to see the discussion from both sides and take in all the information to make an informed decision. (I know, I have a son in kindergarten.) You know, now that I think about it, you are right... maybe Jody is in kindergarten. That would answer a lot.... something to ponder.

MikeL

Platinum Member
Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 125

11/05/09 at 03:16 PM

#83

The difference between USA (John Holbrook - who I truly respect and use his products) and Brandon and Rusty is.. John H. says his peace and then leaves it alone. Rusty, you're a very knowledgeable appraiser, and I'm glad you're back, but you get baited into arguments WAY too easily. This thread should have ended a long time ago. I learned a lot from the first 10 postings and then it has become about retarded roosters and fixing broken TVs.

__________________
A duck was about to cross the road when a chicken came running up and said... don't do it man ... you will never here the end of it!

Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 136

11/05/09 at 03:26 PM