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MikePower

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Reply with quote  #1 
See Below....

If you work for CHASE thru an AMC...the precedent now has been set...

Can you say it really is time to find a new job??????????????????????

Can it get any worse???  So every tom, dick and harry AMC starts up a shop...collects a million in fees from a major lender, does not pay anyone, then declares bankruptcy....

I friggin QUIT!!!!

I tell you I am going to tell you this one time only....we are idiots, if we do not band together in some sort of UNION right now....

I am a member of the AGA and believe, since they are up an running that is our best option...

I know, I know, everyone talks about working thru the STATE...really???  This was a FEDERAL decision, and within the next couple of years, the FEDS will control the Appraisal Industry.  Look at how TAF ousted the AI and how the APB is gaining more and more power....

If my wife was not in rehab for the next six months due to her recent back surgery, I would be in DC with Pete Vidi (AGA President) tomorrow...

Look ladies and gentleman....we have to do more and more work, for the same or less amount of money, and now the folks in charge of paying us...do not have to!!!!!  They just have to file bankruptcy an disappear to an Island!!!

And the Lender's will do nothing to make it right!!!

I told you all over and over again, our Industry was in a fight for survival and it is a fight now on the Federal Level, no longer on the State Level.....

Let's wake up everyone....of by the way...all the folks in DC on the ASC and TAF, basically none are appraisers....chew on that as well....

Oh by the way, Happy Fourth of July Weekend!!!  Not much of an Independence Day for US!!!


Mike Power

Bankruptcy Court Absolves Chase of All Liability
by Isaac Peck, Associate Editor

An alarming precedent has just been set for real estate appraisers in the bankruptcy case of Evaluation Solutions/ES Appraisal Services (ESA). Despite numerous objections from appraisers and agent/brokers alike, a Florida bankruptcy judge has ruled in favor of JPMorgan Chase in granting a Bar Order which absolves Chase of any liability on future claims from appraisers, agents, and brokers for unpaid fees for valuation services that were delivered to Chase through ESA.

Specifically, the Order “shall be deemed to have released Summit and JPMorgan Chase and each of their current and former…agents…from any and all known or unknown claims, causes of action, suits, debts, obligations, liabilities, demands, losses, costs and expenses (including attorney’s fees).”

ESA declared bankruptcy in January 2013 with over 11 million dollars in unpaid debt, with an estimated 5 million in unpaid fees to appraisers, agents, and brokers. JPMorgan Chase was the client for 98% of ESA’s valuation business and was listed as the client on all of the appraisal reports that appraisers submitted to Chase through ESA.  Read Stiffed Appraisers Go After Chase and Chase Denies Responsibility for Bankrupt AMC Debt.

Agency Relationship
Within the appraisal community, the widely held understanding of the relationship between a lender and its appraisal management company (AMC) has been that of an agency relationship, wherein the AMC serves as the lender’s agent, with the lender being responsible for the actions and obligations of its agent.  This is due to the fact that federal regulations, including FIRREA and the Interagency Appraisal Guidelines, require lenders to engage appraisers either directly or through “its agent.”

NOLO’s Plain English Law Dictionary defines agency as: “The relationship of a person (called the agent) who acts on behalf of another person, company, or government, known as the principal. The principal is responsible for the acts of the agent, and the agent's acts bind the principal.”

However, the Court notes that “Agency” is nowhere defined in the federal regulations and, consequently, the Court must revert to a common law definition of agency. Using a common law definition of agency, wherein “the essential element of agency is control,” the Court has ruled that no agency relationship existed between Chase and ESA. The Court cites Section 14.8 of the Master Service Agreement between Chase and ESA where it states that at all times ESA was to remain “an independent contractor.”  In short, the Bar Order has been approved, in part, because ESA was not Chase’s agent. 

In its Glossary of Terms the Interagency Appraisal and Evaluation Guidelines admits that the regulations do not define the term, but states:
The Agencies' appraisal regulations do not specifically define the term "agent." However, the term is generally intended to refer to one who undertakes transacting business or managing business affairs for another.

Who’s the Client?
Richard Hagar, SRA points out that The 2010 Interagency Appraisal Guidelines specifically state: “An institution or its agent must directly select and engage appraisers.”

“This is very clear cut,” says Hagar, “It means that lenders are prohibited from engaging non-appraisers for appraisal services. They must do it either directly or through their agent.”

“In my opinion, it appears that Chase has knowingly violated numerous Federal Regulations and statements by the banking agencies and ordered appraisals through prohibited parties,” says Hagar.

Besides a potential violation of federal regulations, Hagar also says that this may be a case of false representation. “Appraisers are consistently and repeatedly told, by AMCs, that the AMC is acting as the agent on behalf of the lender; and appraisers are required to place the lender’s name on the appraisal as the ‘client,’” says Hagar.

Hagar, who has been involved in many high profile fraud cases as an expert witness, says that there are arguably elements of fraud in a case like this. “Those appraisers who have been affected by this case may be able to argue that Chase has participated in creating a fraud upon a consumer, the real estate appraiser,” says Hagar.

Hagar points out that the general rule for fraud is that if there is a misrepresentation and it alters an outcome, and that outcome causes financial loss, then “fraud” has likely occurred. “If the appraiser had known that the AMC was not the agent for Chase, then the appraiser would have placed the AMCs name on the appraisal, not Chase’s. If the appraiser knew that the AMC was the client, then they would have made alternate business decisions regarding payment (which they never received). To me, appraisers may have an argument that Chase has conspired with an AMC to misrepresent facts to the appraiser,” says Hagar.

Hagar points to Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act (FTC Act) (15 USC 45) which prohibits ‘‘unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce.’’  These acts include:

·         A representation, omission, or practice misleads or is likely to mislead the consumer;

·         A consumer’s interpretation of the representation, omission, or practice is considered reasonable under the circumstances; and

·         The misleading representation, omission, or practice is material.

AMC Master Service Agreements
An argument that was used by Chase, and the bankruptcy judge, in denying appraisers' and agents’ claims against Chase, is that because Chase and ESA entered into a Master Service Agreement (MSA) that specifically defined ESA as an “independent contractor,” ESA was consequently not Chase’s agent and that Chase is not responsible or liable for ESA’s actions.

However, if this is true, it begs the question about Chase’s other MSAs, and the agreements and arrangements that exist between lenders and AMCs across the country.

Are AMCS, in fact, the agents of lenders? Who is the client?

The answers to these questions will hopefully be clarified by regulators or another court ruling shortly.  Sources close to the case say that appraisers and agents are planning to appeal the bankruptcy judge’s decision and advance this case to an Appellate Court.

This is a developing story.

About the Author
Isaac Peck is the Associate Editor of Working RE Magazine and Marketing Coordinator at OREP.org, a leading provider of E&O Insurance for appraisers, inspectors, and other real estate professionals in 49 states. He received his Bachelors in Business Management at San Diego State University. He can be contacted at Isaac@orep.org or (888) 347-5273.

 

 

MikePower

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Reply with quote  #2 
Oh, I almost forgot there is more...

Dodd-Frank, not allowing any appraisal organizations to have any input...but, the AMC's sure are!!!

Plus, the ASC Appraiser Hot Line....the APB with the attitude that their rules and guidelines are just suggestions!!!!

The plug has been pulled and we are going down the sewer line fast....

Mike P.
keith

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Reply with quote  #3 
You are dead on right. This is worse than any ruling in the last 10 years. Cuomo, HVCC, Dodd Frank. Who cares. If an AMC can collect millions then bankrupt then we are finished. This system is fubarred with no end in sight.
Bobby

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Reply with quote  #4 
Come on, you guys really think that the big banks have to play by rules and laws...  




Well, I don't know as I want a lawyer to tell me what I cannot do. I hire him to tell how to do what I want to do.
J. P. Morgan 
 

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Billy123

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Reply with quote  #5 
Be 66 this month, guess its time to retire.
Bobby

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy123
Be 66 this month, guess its time to retire.


Nothing has changed, they've always had immunity when they want it.  Just purchase a few judges and you can do the same.

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Bobby

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Reply with quote  #7 
If you want to see some real change in this country, let some big banker's head roll.





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papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #8 
Chase shouldn't have to pay appraisers. Chase didn't order the appraisal.

Every assignment I got from them had the fee that chase paid them at $275. My fee was 450. Chase didn't agree to pay me, es appraisals did.

To expect that chase should pay appraisers is no different from chase asking you for their money back because es didn't deliver your report to chase.

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scott

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papaJsqueeze
Chase shouldn't have to pay appraisers. Chase didn't order the appraisal. Every assignment I got from them had the fee that chase paid them at $275. My fee was 450. Chase didn't agree to pay me, es appraisals did. To expect that chase should pay appraisers is no different from chase asking you for their money back because es didn't deliver your report to chase.


Try that when you hire a contractor to work on your house.....he hires a sub....doesn't pay the sub....lien is on your house. 

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papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #10 
Surveyors and architects can file a lien in GA... Why not us?


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MikePower

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Reply with quote  #11 
Jody, read the article closely, the problem is "who is the client?"  That is the debate raging over this.
Notice how the AMC's want the Lender to be the Client...well, then what the hell is the AMC in this deal....

I will tell you "harmless", that is what they want to be....

Indemnification agreements, 45+ days to pay, ask BlueChip about ServiceLink right now.....

Etc, Etc, Etc....

The sad part, is we allowed all of this to happen.  The steamroller was the HVCC, but, there were little 
hits for years and years....

Mike P.
MikePower

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Last.....

I think everyone knows my political side...I am highly conservative...

However, I truly believe, that we are going to have to band together, I believe right now that the AGA, American Guild of Appraisers is the best route to go.  The Guild is backed by the OPEIU and of course the AFL-CIO.  But, the AGA is a Guild not a traditional Union.  We do not strike, we do not have collective bargaining, etc.

I am fully aware that they have the backing of the AFL-CIO, which in all honesty, is a strength, not a weakness...

I know many, if not most appraisers would rather quit the business than be affiliated with any type of Union.  

However, we are getting railroaded...and if anyone has a better answer, that is doable in a short period of time, please let me know....I am wide open to suggestions...

Dodd-Frank is being stalled as are the hearings, which might not be a bad thing, considering, we as appraisers, especially residential appraisers have no representation in the finalization of the rules and regulations for appraisers!!!  But, TAVMA for the AMC's has a huge input....and a continual seat during those hearings.

It very much appears that the Federal Government, much sooner rather than later, will have complete oversight over the Appraisal Industry.  They will regulate education and I believe we will have to have a Federal Lisc, instead of a State issued Lisc within 5 to 10 years.

So, do we continue to be sheep????  I will not...

Mike P.
Bobby

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Reply with quote  #13 
I don't agree that we have let this happen.  That's ridiculous.  The machine is used against us.


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LR

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Reply with quote  #14 

I am calling Lee Wilco, a real property attorney and one who has represented several appraisers within the past five years and inquiring about the possibility of getting the state's attorney general involved.  I will also be calling the federal attorney's office in Gainesville. 

These practices by BOA forwarding reviews to India and Chase with their outrages claims that they need not pay those appraisers (they clearly contacted appraisers through conduits to complete assignments) is clearly against USPAP and FIRREA ethics and laws.  Georgia needs to get in the mix; we need to get knee deep in this thing. These banks are unregulated and their AMCs are killing the industry but more importantly breaking state and federal laws.

I'm hoping that a class action suit is on the horizon as well.

MikePower

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Reply with quote  #15 
Bobby, we have let this happen.  We have been too independent to our own demise. 

As usual, look at the Real Estate Agents industry.  NAR was formed right around 1910 I think.  Grew much larger after WW2.

Below is some interesting data..

If we would have had some type of association, way back when...we would not be in the situation we are today...

So...it is time to take drastic action...in order to achieve a decent level of existence for all appraisers.  

Oh, no matter what, appraisers will survive, at some level of pay.....do not know what type of quality of life we will have....or how much more our annual income will drop...

Or, if we will all just become staff appraisers of the AMC's, which could become very likely in the near future...

Mike P.

Lobbying[edit]

The NAR wields substantial power as a lobbying organization. Since 1999, the NAR has spent more than $99,384,108,[15] and spent $22,355,463 in 2011 alone.[16] It has consistently ranked among the largest Political Action Committees in the United States. On the total spending, the largest share—46% -- has gone to Republicans, and 30.8% has gone to Democrats. Key political issues for the group revolve around federal de-regulation of the financial services industry.



PCB

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Reply with quote  #16 
How about this.  Why don't all the appraisers who got stiffed by Chase show up at their main office in Atlanta and protest. Yoy might get on local news and possibly Fox or CNBC. (nah forget CNBC they are all in love with Jamie Diamond). 

Wonder why ESA went bankrupt? Probably Chase did not pay them. So let's see Jamie Diamond and Chase made money on the loan and kept the appraisal fees also. Goldman will probably have a "buy" rating on them in the morning. That us why Jamie Diamond is considered the smartest banker in the world.

Now if you have a mortgage, car loan or credit card with Chase you could stop paying but...that will probably not end well.

You could stop doing work for Chase but....we know someone (Jody probably) will just look at this as a business oppurtunity to open a branch office in Lithonia.

Last but not least I guess we could face reality and hope that their next AMC will not cut appraisal rates another 25%.

All kidding aside for all you AMC guys "I feel your pain" but I think it only gets worse from here.  

   


 

papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #17 

On the engagement letters, ES would state that they were getting paid $275 yet they were paying me $450.  Was that chase's fault?  Or ES's Fault that they paid me more than they were charging.

At the end of the day, I lost money on three assignments, but I broke even and equated to getting my full fee for all the work I did for them.  So, I ain't too upset. 

But how can it be chases fault or chases responsibility if their AMC was paying out more than they were getting?


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Dadof10

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Reply with quote  #18 
Perhaps, it's time we all agreed as a profession, that we will no longer do any work were Chase is the named client.
Mike Power is right, unless we band together we are doomed. We may be already. The HVCC and the rise of the AMC was probably the death blow. I predict that unless massive political changes occur, diametrically opposed to our current direction, that we will be gone within 10 to 15 years. The big banks have managed to transfer their risk to the public sector (Freddie and Fannie are govermental departments, as will be whatever agency follows them) while preserving the reward for the shareholders, executives and our congress. This is, in the words of Lawrence Lessig (a brilliant man) the worst form of Socialism. I can see a time in the future when Jamie Dimon of Chase or someone like him., will sit before Congress and explain that because of the "Appraiser Problem" which is of great concern to him, it is imperative that the lending industry be allowed to employ, as a temporary measure only, the new AVM process that has been in refinement for over a decade. I have good friends that will disagree with this prophesy, I hope they are right, but I fear it is spot on. What has happened to our profession is only part of larger societal changes being wrought by the elite upon the nation. We are no longer a constitutional republic friends we are an oligarchy or perhaps a cleptocracy.
MikePower

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Reply with quote  #19 
WE as appraisers generally think small...and we have never had anyone, or any Group to think BIG..

That is our main problem...we look to the next order, not to the next decade.

I wish I had enough time and money, and I would walk away and be an advocate for our appraisal profession. 

I would be in DC, I would lobby with Pete Vidi and other members of the AGA to Congress and other groups that actually are interested in our survival.

Those groups by the way, are not conservative groups, most are considered "liberal".

I would gladly accept help from the OPEIU and the AFL-CIO, since they have enough clout, to get the folks on Capitol Hill to listen....

I know of no other way at this point in time, than to work heavily on the Federal Level.  Unless, we can somehow convince our State reps that this is a lost revenue issue for Georgia, they are not overly concerned with the appraisal profession.

WE all are being "centralized" and I do not think it is going to matter much who is in charge....to "strip" down the Federal Government in size, is now close to impossible.  

It is my belief we better start working with organizations and join those organizations that can help us....

Mike P. 


LR

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Reply with quote  #20 
Mike,

Liberal is a truly defining term for me. 

I've had so many months to think about this, to study and understand exactly how this impacts any business. 

The banks are unregulated and we've had enough time in the past seven years to realize what their
intentions were and are.  These AMCs are a result of the banks involvement with politicians and their intentions to keep money in each other's pockets to keep away any lobbyist involved with our industry.

Rick and I met with Nathan Deal a couple of years before he became Governor.  At the time, he acted like he had no idea about what was happening, but later, I realized that that couldn't have been the case.  We've also met with Lynn Westmoreland as did you and others with GCAP.  Rick and I were with John Bryant, Jeff Ledford and the author of the HB 1050, Les Knoblock.  I heard what kind of response the state politicians gave at that meeting and that was just the beginning.  If it hadn't been for Mr. Knoblock, I don't want to think about where we would be now.  

History reveals that the AFL CIO is a strong and effective organization, but again, a very strong political faction of the Democratic Party.  At this time, just before the 2014 elections, they may be receptive to anything that only brings even more power, of course.  You don't really hear a lot about them essentially because they have so much power they need no introduction.  I'm concerned that although this may appear to be an option for us, we need to understand that if they take on our plight, the ride may be incredibly rough for us.  This organization has been around for a very long time and they don't need us and probably scoff at our "problems".  They've been very aware of what's been going on, believe it.  I haven't heard a peep out
of any of the liberal factions regarding any problems with the banks.  It's been the conservatives who have rendered comments regarding any bank/political/amc involvement.  Not one liberal has said one word.  That concerns me when I consider an opportunity to reach out to a liberal organization.  They are liberal with the tax payer money.  That's about it. 

I don't disagree that we need a lot of help, that's for sure.  One way to get that help is to reach out to the media.  In the past, I've stated that I've contacted, on several occasions, the national media.  I think the local, regional and state media needs to be contacted.  I've even considered completing a documentary with a film student at GSA and peddling it around nationally.  I know it sounds over the top, but consider what we are experiencing. 

I think you agree that we need an audience who will listen, like the consumer, in fact you have said it many times and I agree.  The banks are still charging incredible fees and sharing with AMCs which leaves us with virtually very little.  We pay their fees, use their mandates, etc.  It matter not a tinkers damn that we are saddled with their expenses and our own.  If we got this message out to the public, it would matter a whole helluva lot.

The AMC in itself is not the problem.  It's the fee split with us on the bottom because we offer least resistance.  Whose to say that the AFL CIO will not replace the AMCs with our fees?  I don't know.

The problem is not that any of these players necessarily want money. It's that they want power.  And they have stolen our power with legitimately stealing our money.  They have been able to do this with the blessings of many appraiser organizations, banks, amcs and national political organizations.  We are impotent in the state in which we find ourselves because of this and my concern is that a powerful factions will find it amusing that we reach out to them at all. 

We need some very bright appraisers who share our concerns and experience the same and who are able to meet and speak with the media.  Being able to translate our information to those who will listen and more importantly, are affected by the outcome is essential because, if we don't, we are doomed to more of it because no one cares. Not even appraisers.

Everything has been tried.  Nothing seems to work.  It may be bigger than is possible to handle.

Our problem are the unregulated banks and their spin off revenue collectors, the pandering do nothing politicians and the endless array of appraiser organizations who placate us.  Look at the recent goings on from BOA and Chase.  It's unbelievable. 

When these stories come about, there needs to be a counterpoint expressed in the same media that covers the story. 

The one constant that has them all running is the media.





papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #21 
Anna,

I don't disagree with the point you make, but consider this.  A conservative view point is to make the banks as profitable as they can be.  The conservative view is that our fees are low because we accept low fees (and it would be correct).  The conservative view is that if we are replaced so be it, maybe it will be to streamline the process and make the banks more money.

I believe whole heartedly in the conservative view.  However, when my ass is on the line and I have my hand out I am not going to hand it out to the conservatives because they will simply slap it.  Everyone knows when you put your hand out, it will be a liberal that will fill it.

We need the liberals and their regulations.  It is the conservatives and the republicans that want to deregulate everything.

This is why Mike and I agree that if we need help (and we do) then we need to ask for help from the ones that can deliver rather than laugh at us.  That unfortunately is the AGA and its affiliations with the AFL CIO.


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MattB

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Reply with quote  #22 
We posted about this on our Appraisal Advisor Facebook page (we have over 1250 likes, so if you haven't liked it yet, we'd love it if you did!). I figured I copy/paste it here since it's relevant to the conversation:

"Today the courts absolved Chase of all of ES Appraisal's debts, setting the precedent that lenders are not responsible for their AMC's stiffing appraisers.

Regardless of the laws you cite, lobbying you intend to do, or your feelings towards Chase in particular, the fact remains that this precedent HAS been set.

The old ways of screening your current and new clients are not working. AppraiserLoft, JVI, ES Appraisal... who will be the next to stiff you for tens of millions of dollars of your hard-earned money? 

You can always know the financial and ethical health of your client by adding your experiences with those of your fellow appraisers through Appraisal Advisor. And, if a client does stiff you, you can collect from them through our Uniform Complaint Form and report them to state and federal regulators and law enforcement if they don't play ball. 

Clients are like stocks. For many, the way they treat and pay appraisers fluctuates depending on your market, your credentials, the assignment, and the time of year. No investor blindly buys into stocks that are the basis of their livelihood, and appraiser shouldn't have to do the same with the AMC and lender clients out there.

Do it for your profession, for the good clients out there so the bad ones get less business, and do it for overall industry transparency, but most importantly, do it for yourself and your own business.

See on you on the site. http://www.appraisaladvisor.com

-Matt Biggers and Kim Drago, co-founders of Appraisal Advisor  " 


That ties in closely with what I've been saying all along though - focus on what you can actually control, such as who you work for and making sure others don't fall prey to the bad clients out there. 

Furthermore, when it comes to lobbying, it's something that my family is all too familiar with. My father spent close to a million dollars of his personal money (not actual donations from a la mode) on the Appraisal Advocacy Coalition (that he founded and funded) that was pre-HVCC, and he'll be the first one to tell you that it didn't do a damned thing. There just isn't any company in the appraisal industry that has the clout or money to make those lobbying efforts effective -- I recently read that the natural gas companies spent over $750 million in lobbying efforts to get fracking (natural gas "mining") federally approved for the energy sector. That's a level that cannot be matched by appraisal software companies or the various appraisal organizations out there.
MikePower

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Reply with quote  #23 
Matt...I agree with you 100%.  Plus, your father and I spoke on several occasions about the importance of contacting legislators, local, state and federal.

As you just stated 750 million....

My problem with all of us in the appraisal profession, including myself...is that we just never think of the future.

We just ASSUME that we will have a profession to keep working in.  I think we know what happens to that kind of thinking.....it usually leads to extinction. 

Therefore, WE have to have a new mindset...an awakening of sorts.

We need to stop worrying about, what a split foyer is...and start worrying, if we will be able to appraise a split foyer in the next five years!!!!

In addition, too many appraisers have left themselves no option as to who they want to work for, they can not pick and choose.  

Does not matter where the blame lays...what matters is we start working on solutions.  

The appraisal profession is not sexy, it is not exciting, so it generates very little media attention....

We get the blame for not going high enough on values, then we get the blame for inflating values...

Therefore, we have to work with who wants us to succeed.  

The problem is always time and money....which the typical individual appraiser has very little of.

I have come to my own awakening, and I am willing to work with any group, left, right, middle, I do not care, that truly wants the appraisal profession to survive and thrive.

Anna, the AFL-CIO, is simply a tool, to use, clout, if you will, so appraisers can get in front of the political folks who can make a difference for us.

OK....I am stretched a bit thin these days, like all of us....

I am wide open to all suggestions....I hope all of you will be open as well...


Mike Power


Bobby

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Reply with quote  #24 
Cash at the door would easily solve the issue.  Then you could pay the AMC what they are worth to you.
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MikePower

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Reply with quote  #25 
I believe we are better off not fighting about fees.

The entire case with Chase is about who is the Client?  Who is held responsible in this situation?

That is where we are screwed due to this decision.  Chase, hires an AMC as an agent of their Company, but, due to the decision by this Court, Chase is not responsible....

This is a huge slippery slope.....how do we even know if Chase paid all the fees due to ES Appraisals?

It will take years to sort it out...and the bottom line, is it no longer matters....

Mike P.
LR

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Reply with quote  #26 
Based on USPAP, it is very clear for me who the client is and that would be the person/entity who requests the report. 

The fees we agree to have a impact on the appraiser who agrees to them first.

"Blaming" us for values is ridiculous and will be settled when we have
a discussion with the general public through the media.  Those making
those retorts have no basis for them.  We are the only ones who are able
to clear the issues.  

This conversation provokes insight and further discussion.  This is good.

Thanks, Mike and others on the thread.  I appreciate it.

MikePower

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Reply with quote  #27 
The problem, is that USPAP means nothing to almost everyone in the lending world...

And it appears now in the US Courts as well....

Mike P.
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Reply with quote  #28 
If Chase paid the AMC, I can see why they wouldn't want to pay again. The problem is that the amc model was forced upon us. W/ this news I would suggest being very careful going out more than 30 days worth of credit which still can be a large amount for us little guys. I've cited Dodd Frank in the past and actually collected payment from a lender when the amc went belly up. Only a few invoices but now w/ this precedent I'm sure ill be told to pound sand if it ever happens again.
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Reply with quote  #29 
Things get done at the state level.  What keeps an action for GA to define the agent, client relationship in terms that provide no loopholes in this regard?  But you are correct..   what now keeps AMC's to pop up, bankrupt, then reappear continuously under new names with the same crooks? 

Any AMC that is slow to pay should be shunned. 

Not to mention, time to put that good ol' mechanics lean on each of the homes that did not recieve payment which will take the fight to the grass roots although it will take time. 
LR

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Reply with quote  #30 

RS, that is an excellent illustration.

Chase could have shot themselves in the foot in the long run.

The Chase case is a good one to determine that the AMCs have no place in the appraisal or banking industries; what is their use, after all?  The main use is to collect revenues for their owners which are primarily banks. The other is to create impotence within our industry and to control it altogether.

The scenario would support an amendment to the GA Law that the AMC is not the client and the appraiser should be the one to quote their fee and to collect it up front from their client. 

Breaching of the Federal Truth in Lending Laws and FIRREA should also be addressed.

Mike, we talked about the AFL CIO in the past at length, and I agree that anyone should be able to join the AGA and some do
for this very reason.   The same could be said for the AI, which was created primarily for educational purposes and later involved
themselves politically regarding appraisal lobbying purposes. 

This Chase case should be appealed. The disposition for this case is totally unethical and illegal.

Thanks, Matt, for that incredible, valuable information. 





MikePower

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Reply with quote  #31 

TIME and MONEY...

If only we had more of each...

Therein lies our biggest problem as appraisers....

Who personally has the time and the money to continually fight City Hall???  I know I do not...

WE all just have to figure out what existing group there is for us to Join and then WE have to support that group with money....

I do not think we any longer have the option just to "hope things get better".

There will not be any perfect group ever...for all of us...however, we better decide quickly and on a National Scale to join something.

WE have been more and more fragmented since 1989....and with the Federal Government wanting to assume more and more control of the mortgage industry, we have to have a unified voice on a National Scale not just on the State Level.

I bet if we asked our Governor and our current RE Commissioner, they would love to get rid of having to worry about us appraisers and let the Feds have national control.  Run the numbers...what do we bring in a year for revenue?  $300K maybe??? We have no money to lobby as well...

OK...I have to get back at it and try to finish up several reports again on a Sunday.  

Mike Power

papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #32 
Mike, we bring in a lot more than that in revenue.... YOu didn't count the blood money that the extort from good decent appraisers by offering them a plea for minor nonsense offenses.
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Reply with quote  #33 
Jody...you are so right...I forgot about all the $200 to $500 fines over each year....

I still think, the State would have no problem at all if we became Federally regulated...

Happy Sunday...still typing..

Mike P.
papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #34 
Not to bring up a bad subject, but is there any update on what is going on with GCAP and RESLINK.  Any support for any potential candidates for GREAB?

Still typing here too.

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LR

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Reply with quote  #35 
I've made several requests about the current activities of GCAP regarding monthly meetings, future speakers, if there will be new elections this year.  Danny was interested in possibly having a huge general meeting sometime during the summer. (Avery at Lynn Westmoreland's office contacted me recently and I forwarded her request about the possibility of having Congressman Westmoreland speak at one of our meetings and forwarded this request to Danny and Ken).

David Warren is now the acting secretary as well as GCAP vice president. Apparently, Danny, David, Ken and Mike are very excited about the possible placement of GCAP board members onto the GREAB board. Political Action and Education continues to be priority. 

Ken Portwood reported that he hasn't heard anything from Chris Tea.  When I contacted Chris,
he indicated that he had not heard anything, but offered pertinent, treasury information to Danny.

David Warren had contacted me and Rick about some exciting news regarding GCAP; Rick and I
were on our way out, so Rick asked him to email the information to us.  None received yet.

Mike Power is not able to involve himself with GCAP for the next six months, with Sindy being just out of an incredibly serious back operation. Martin Winter will be taking his place in Political Action in the interim.  Martin Winter and Michael Gray are now new board members and have been for some time.

GCAP had a general meeting recently with the SC Coalition Representative as speaker.

That's all I know as of today.  I resigned as secretary some months ago.  With the exception of
the past month, I've been assisting Ken Portwood with his membership campaign.

Any other information regarding GCAP can be found at http://www.gcapappraisers.com

From Mike Power posted on gcapappraisers.com:

DODD-FRANK / ASC APPRAISAL COMPLAINT HOTLINE - UP AND RUNNING

This is the link to the new ASC operated web site, established March 15, 2013, for complaints regarding non-compliance with the USPAP, or Appraisal Independence Requirements:

http://refermyappraisalcomplaint.asc.gov/

Note that this can be used by anyone who believes the appraiser has violated requirements of the USPAP …… and by appraisers who believe their independence was compromised in the appraisal process.

There are links within the web site to explain details. And there are several multi-page PDF’s designed for Lenders and Consumers. This one for Lenders may be of interest to you appraisers because it explains what they can and can’t do regarding appraisals:

https://appraisalfoundation.sharefil...634c9fee34c6da

The hotline is a requirement that was put forth through an act of Congress in 2010.

Anna








papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #36 
Any word on RESLINK progress?
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LR

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Reply with quote  #37 
I asked and the response was that it is gone.

I have so many questions that will never be answered.
Phil

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Reply with quote  #38 
I think we should join forces wtih 2nd gen...that is not a bad product...

MEP
papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #39 
Gone???? Well where the hell did the money go?  And the records that folks submitted with the guarantee that they would never be sold?
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BlueChip

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Reply with quote  #40 
Good question? Where the "F_CK" are my records?....Yeah I said it....vulgarity and all.
BC

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papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #41 
Damn... That was viol.
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BlueChip

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Reply with quote  #42 
That toad is the best!!
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LR

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Reply with quote  #43 

...and you are an incredibly articulate in that way, Bluechip. 

The death of Reslink is old news; it's been gone since January of this year, however, I am still raw over it and always will be. The manner in which I discovered its demise will never leave me. 

Whenever I ask about its disposition, I get a clouded answer which I interpret as it being gone.  The only people who ever gave me a straight answer were Ken and Chris, thank goodness.







papaJsqueeze

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Reply with quote  #44 
Now do you see how David and I felt?

I hadn't heard anything about reslink since Ken went berserk on the forum.  Still don't know why he did that.

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